APPLE PODCASTS | SPOTIFY

In this episode, Ashley takes us on a hope-filled journey into the wonder of Heaven. In Chapter 5 of Cradled in Hope, “Heaven on Earth: When You Wonder Where Your Baby Is,” she helps grieving moms find peace in knowing where their babies are now (the current Heaven)—and where they will one day be (the New Heaven). Drawing from Scripture and trusted theological resources, Ashley paints a biblically rooted picture of Heaven, offering comfort and confidence that our children are safe in the arms of Jesus.

Ashley invites listeners to imagine the most beautiful place they’ve ever seen, then reminds them that even the most breathtaking views on earth pale in comparison to the splendor of Heaven. She explains what the Bible says about the current Heaven, the future New Earth, and the resurrection to come. This episode is filled with hope and assurance for every mom longing to hold her baby again.

In this episode, Ashley shared:

• Why this chapter was one of the first she wrote—and why Heaven is central to our hope
• Her personal “Heaven on earth” memory in St. Lucia, where Bridget’s life began
• Why Heaven is more than an ethereal, cloud-filled space—and how our perceptions may need reshaping
• The difference between the current Heaven and the future New Earth (the eternal Heaven)
• What it means that our babies are “with Jesus” now, even as we await the resurrection of glorified bodies
• Insights from Heaven by Randy Alcorn, including a chart on common assumptions vs. biblical truths
• Scriptural promises from Revelation 21 and 22 that describe our eternal home
• Why our babies are not angels—and why that’s actually really good news
• The question of “How old will my baby be in Heaven?” and the peace that comes from trusting God’s plan
• Four biblical reasons Ashley believes babies go to Heaven, including Jesus’ love for children and David’s words in 2 Samuel 12

Ashley reminds us that our reunion with our babies is not just wishful thinking—it is a promise grounded in God’s Word. She invites you to picture that reunion: holding your baby again, walking hand in hand, never to be separated. Heaven is not only real—it is more beautiful than we can imagine.

Journaling Prompt
What excites you most about Heaven? Did anything in this chapter or episode surprise you or change the way you think about eternity?

Healing Step
Read Heaven by Randy Alcorn or another biblically grounded book on the topic. Use discernment and always compare what you read to Scripture. For a powerful vision of your eternal home, spend time reading Revelation 21–22.

Full transcript below.

New episodes will be shared on the 1st of every month. Don’t miss a single episode…subscribe wherever you podcast!

Please also leave a review to help spread the message of hope with other grieving mommas!

JOIN OUR FACEBOOK GROUP FOR GRIEVING MOMS

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Ashley Opliger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Cradled in Hope Podcast Book Club.

I’m your host, Ashley Opliger—grieving mom, author of Cradled in Hope, and founder of Bridget’s Cradles. I’m so honored to walk with you through my book, one chapter at a time, as we navigate the heartbreak of losing a baby together.

After my daughter Bridget went to Heaven at 24 weeks, I wrestled with deep sadness and complex questions about God’s goodness. But through that grief, Jesus showed me that He not only cradles our babies in Heaven, He also holds our broken hearts here on earth.

Whether you’re reading along or simply listening in, this is a safe space for your sorrow—a place where your tears, questions, and raw emotions are welcome. Each episode, we’ll reflect on a chapter of Cradled in Hope and gently walk together from heartbreak to healing, and from pain to purpose.

My prayer is that this podcast will remind you that you are not alone in your grief and, most importantly, that it will point you to Jesus, the only One who can truly heal your heart. Through faith in Him, there is hope to see your baby again, and He will be with you every step from here to Heaven.

So wherever you are in your journey, I invite you to join me—and together, we will grieve with hope.

Let’s begin.

Ashley Opliger: [00:01:22] Hi friends. Welcome back. Today we are diving into Chapter Five, Heaven on Earth: When You Wonder Where Your Baby Is.

[00:01:30] This chapter is actually one of the first chapters I wrote. I think it was one of the first three. It ended up being Chapter Five in the book because of the order that I wanted everything to be in. But I really love this chapter because it focuses on what Heaven is like. And hopefully by the time that you’re done reading this chapter and listening to this episode, you will have an excitement for going to Heaven one day and a peace about the fact that your baby is there right now. So let’s dive into this chapter.  

We’re going to start with the opening verse, which is 1 Corinthians 2:9, says, “What no eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no human heart has conceived – God has prepared these things for those who love Him.”  

And so I start this chapter with an invitation for you to close your eyes and to think about the most beautiful place you’ve ever visited in your lifetime. I want you to just think about this. Spend a moment just thinking of what it looks like, what it feels like to be in this place.

[00:02:35] Is it the vast peaks of snowcapped mountains or the serene waters of your favorite lake? Is it the ocean’s crashing waves, or a breathtaking sunset in your hometown? I want you to take a few moments and just kind of escape there. Think about it, and really paint the picture in your mind’s eye. 

[00:02:51] For me, I went to an island in the Caribbean called Saint Lucia. Maybe you’ve heard of it. This is the place that Matt and I went on our honeymoon after we got married, and it is such a beautiful place. There’s just calm sea, beautiful green mountains poking their heads out of the ocean. The island just felt so peaceful and untouched, serene. I loved it so much. I felt like I could just relax. It was truly a tropical paradise.

[00:03:19] And so when Matt and I were there, we had a lot of time just spending time laying in hammocks right next to the ocean, listening to the waves and feeling the fresh ocean air, and being outside in the warm sun. It was so peaceful. I loved it so much. 

[00:03:38] And not to be TMI, but we did conceive Bridget on her honeymoon. She was a honeymoon baby, which was completely unexpected and such a miracle because I did not think that I would be able to get pregnant easily with my history of PCOS. And so we brought a little souvenir home, Bridget. I just love that God had given us the gift of new life so early in our marriage, but also in this beautiful place that I found so much peace at.

[00:04:04] And so Bridget’s life began in Saint Lucia, which is my little piece of Heaven on earth. So why did I ask you to think about the most beautiful place you’ve ever been to? 

Well, I had you do that because I wanted you to have that as a backdrop for what Heaven is going to be like, because if you can imagine the most beautiful place on this earth, it will pale in comparison to how beautiful Heaven is going to be.

[00:04:31] Because if you think about it, everything on this earth that God created, and He originally created it in its Eden state, so it was beautiful. It was Paradise. 

But the Fall happened and then everything was corrupted and humans were corrupted, and we have destroyed the earth in so many ways. And then also there’s been natural disasters and floods and fires and all of these things that have changed the terrain of the earth. 

And so we can’t even imagine what the Eden state was like and what it’s going to be like on the New Earth in the New Heaven. And so I just say, if you can imagine this beautiful Creation that we see all around us when we go on vacations or even in our own backyard at times, we see all of this with our own two eyes, that is going to be just a glimpse of the splendor of Heaven. 

[00:05:19] And so I mention in this chapter that sometimes you might feel skeptical that Heaven could be that amazing. Again, going back to the last chapter where I said it can be hard to believe in things that you have not seen, we have not seen Heaven. And so we know that it’s going to be beautiful from what the Bible tells us, but we’ve not seen it, and so how can we possibly imagine it?

[00:05:40] And that was what the opening verse says, is we can’t even conceive how amazing Heaven is going to be. We can’t even imagine it because it’s going to be that incredible. 

And so, I don’t know about you, but when I grew up, I had a very interesting view of Heaven. I felt like it was this ethereal, very distant, far-off place that was spiritual, and it was like people were floating on clouds and worshiping the whole time. 

And honestly, as a child, it didn’t seem like a very desirable place to go because it felt boring and very unfamiliar, or in these robes and were just saying, “Holy, holy, holy,” forever in eternity.

[00:06:25] That doesn’t sound like something that would be fun or enjoyable to do, and especially, it seemed weird, like this ethereal feeling of when we go there before the Resurrection, when we don’t have our glorified bodies yet, we’re just souls. And so what does that look like? 

I just had a lot of questions about really what was Heaven going to be like? And honestly, I just felt very uncertain about it. And so I didn’t feel overly excited because I wanted it to be in something familiar like home and earth. And so it was like, “I’m kind of scared to die because I don’t know what that’s going to be like.”

[00:06:58] Now that I have had a chance to really study Scripture and know what the Bible says about what Heaven is like, I am actually very excited to go there, and I have confidence that it’s amazing and it’s way better than where we live. But it just takes studying His Word. 

And so I do go through those perceptions. If you’ve ever felt like, “Where is Heaven and what is it going to be like? And is it really somewhere I want to go? I mean, I know it’s going to be good, but is it going to be desirable, enjoyable? Is it going to be familiar?”

And I really love the book Heaven by Randy Alcorn. You’ve probably seen it. If you haven’t read it yet, I highly recommend that you do so.

I did get permission from his publisher to put one of his charts from Heaven in my book, and it’s a description of explaining what we assume about Heaven versus what the Bible says about Heaven.

[00:07:48] And so if you want to take a look at that in my book, it’s on page 95 and 96. And also, his book has a much more in-depth explanation than I have because I just spent one chapter on this topic.

But basically, we have these very skewed perceptions of what Heaven is like. And one of the things that makes us so confused about it is that a lot of times we don’t understand that there’s actually two Heavens.

[00:08:17] There’s a current Heaven, which is the Heaven that exists right now, and that is where believers’ souls go when they die and where our soul would go if we were to die right now before Jesus comes back the second time. So this is the place that exists before Jesus comes back and eventually will make the New Earth and the New Heaven, which is the second and final, permanent Heaven.

[00:08:41] So two Heavens: a current Heaven, which exists now, and a future coming Heaven, which is the New Heaven, otherwise known as the New Earth. Those are the same thing because Heaven and earth are going to be one at the very end of time for eternity. 

And some people call that the end state or the final state, but that, the eternal state, at that point, Heaven and earth will become one because we will be dwelling with God together forever.

[00:09:08] And you can read about that in Revelation 20 and 21, but it’s really important for us to understand that those two Heavens are different. However, even though the current Heaven seems like it might be a little more ethereal because we’re not embodied yet, the Resurrection hasn’t happened, we haven’t received our glorified immortal bodies from Jesus yet; that happens at the Resurrection.

[00:09:32] And so up until that point, believers’ souls, including our babies, go to Heaven without their body, and so their soul is there. However, there are aspects in Scripture that make it seem like the current Heaven is a physical place. 

First of all, the Bible explains that this place is directly above us, that Hell is beneath us. So Hell is beneath the earth, and Heaven is above the earth, above the sky.

[00:09:56] And so we know for certain throughout Scripture where Heaven is, it’s above us, but we don’t know exactly how it works in the sense of people and our babies there do not have their glorified bodies yet. 

And so what does that state look like? I cannot say for certain because I have not been there, but I do know that once Jesus comes back and we’re resurrected into our glorified bodies, we will eventually be on the New Earth in the New Heaven.

[00:10:24] And when I say eventually, it’s because I’m skipping over some things in the timeline of eschatology, which is the study of the End Times. I do talk about it a little bit more in Chapter 14, but I don’t do an entire deep dive because, again, that was a little bit outside of the scope of my book to give a full analysis of eschatology.

[00:10:45] I did explain it enough to hopefully make everything make sense for the hope that I wanted to impart for you in this book, and give you a really good overview of the Bible and where we’re placing our hope. 

But if you want to read more about that, I actually do have a blog post on my ashleyopliger.com website where you can read more about eschatology. I give you some podcasts you can listen to, I give you Scripture verses, and some books if you want to read more about the End Times. 

But for now, let’s just talk about the fact that eventually we will be on the New Earth in our glorified bodies, living with Jesus and our babies forever. And so I’m going to read from Revelation 21:1-3, and this is John writing this.

[00:11:33] He had a vision of the future Heaven and earth when he was on the island of Patmos, where the Romans had exiled him for preaching the Gospel. This was in the year AD 95, and this is what he recorded. He said, 

“Then I saw “a new Heaven and a new earth,” for the first Heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.”

[00:12:18] And so as you can see, this is now when Heaven and Earth are one, because we are dwelling in the presence of God, which was the plan from the start. 

If you look back in Genesis and you look at the Garden of Eden, the Lord was walking with Adam and Eve in the Garden. They were dwelling together, and then the separation occurred when Adam and Eve took of the fruit and disobeyed God, and they were rejected and they were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

[00:12:45] And so this is when we will eventually be made back to our Eden state, and the New Earth will be our forever home. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:12:54] We hope you’re finding encouragement in this episode so far. We want to take a moment to share some resources our ministry offers to support grieving moms like you.

On our website, bridgetscradles.com, you’ll learn more about our nonprofit and find many hope-filled resources, including free e-books to help you plan a memorial or funeral service for your baby, meaningful ways to honor your baby in your heart and home, and gentle guidance for navigating difficult days like due dates, Heaven Days, and holidays.

We invite you to join our community of grieving moms through our Christ-centered support groups, offered both in-person at our headquarters near Wichita, Kansas, and virtually through Hope Online. These gatherings provide a place to find comfort, connection, and biblical hope alongside other moms who understand your pain.

You can view upcoming dates and sign up on our website. While you’re there, we’d also be honored for you to share your baby’s story with us.

For ongoing support, we welcome you to join our private Cradled in Hope Facebook group—a safe space for grieving moms to find friendship and walk their healing journey together.

To stay connected with us and receive faith-filled encouragement, follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @bridgetscradles, @cradledinhope, and my personal page @ashleyopliger. 

Now, let’s get back to the episode.

Ashley Opliger: [00:14:13] Now, I know that’s a lot of information to take in. And again, I think studying Heaven is just one of the best things that you can do.

[00:14:22] Randy’s book Heaven, honestly, besides the Bible, has been one of my favorite books because it has given me so much excitement and hope to really understand what Heaven is going to be like. And he goes into questions that you might have about Heaven. And where there are not answers in Scripture, he explains we don’t have those answers.

[00:14:42] Just like in my book, I have a list of questions, like: Where is the current Heaven, which I explained, it’s above us, and I gave several Bible verses for that, if you want to read that section. 

I also have the question: Will our babies be angels in Heaven? The answer is no. That is actually a very good thing, because angels are very distinct from humans. They have a very different purpose and role in God’s Kingdom. And so we are actually higher and above angels, and we’re heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ. 

And so we are glad that our babies will not become angels because they are going to remain humans in Heaven, just as God created them. And that is a good thing because that means that our babies will receive physical bodies at the Resurrection, whereas angels are more in the spiritual realm and are very distinct from humans.

[00:15:37] Another question I have in this chapter is: How old will our babies be in Heaven? And so I talk about this because it’s something that I’m very curious about. There’s oftentimes that I think about Bridget, and I think of her as only 13 ounces, when I held her in my arms on October 22nd, 2014. 

There’s other times that I picture her as a full-term infant, the size that she would’ve been if she would’ve been born on her due date. But then there’s other times I imagine her as a little child running around on streets of gold with me. And so what are they going to be? What age are they going to be? 

[00:16:07] And this is one of the questions that I have to say I don’t have the answer to. And the reason I don’t have the answer is that in the Bible, God has not given us an answer.

And so as hard as that is to sit in uncertainty like that, we really have to find comfort in knowing that God has a good plan for us and that whatever it is in Heaven, however it’s going to be, it’s going to be better than our plan, and we are going to have complete confidence and assurance in that plan, and it will not disappoint us. 

[00:16:38] Our babies are safe and secure in Jesus’ loving arms, and we are going to be overjoyed when we see them again, no matter how old they are, what form their body is in. 

[00:16:51] They will be a human. But I’m just saying, will they be a baby or will they be a toddler? Will they be a child? Will they age over time? We don’t know these things. The Bible does not make it clear, and so we cannot speculate one way or the other. 

Another topic that I mention in this chapter is: How can I be sure that babies go to Heaven? I think this is really important as Christians who believe this, because so often we say that the only way to Heaven is for you to believe in Jesus.

[00:17:20] And some might argue, “Well, babies didn’t have a chance to believe in Jesus. They never got to hear the Gospel because they weren’t born, or they were born and died shortly after,” which is always such an interesting argument that someone would make such an argument. 

But I think it’s important to say why I believe that babies are in Heaven, because obviously, my entire book, I stand on that premise. That is the hope that I have to see Bridget again through faith in Jesus. And I explain four major reasons why I believe that babies go to Heaven. 

The first is that babies have not reached the age of accountability. Now, some people think that there is an age of accountability. It’s just a term that people use to say that essentially babies and children cannot fully understand the Gospel or their salvation up until a certain age, and then after that, then they would know. 

[00:18:13] And so first of all, it’s debated whether or not that age of accountability exists, and also what age that would be. And I’m not holding to one particular viewpoint in my book, but I do say that the Bible does not give us a specific age, but the Bible does talk about how children do not yet know good from bad.

[00:18:34] And there are different verses in the Bible that I explain. There’s also a verse that is used to explain that God views children as innocent and not deserving of death. And so throughout the Bible, you can make pretty solid inferences based on how God views children and how He speaks of them, that He values them and sees them as innocent.

[00:18:59] Obviously, Jesus loves children. That’s my second point. Jesus spent time around little children, and He said, “Truly, I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.” And so we know that He values children and loves them. 

And then the third point is that God’s character is good and just. And so for me, I just have a hard time believing that a good God would allow a child who never had the chance to make that decision, that God would send that baby to Hell. 

I know that’s a very difficult thing for me to even say, but I don’t believe that. And so I just say that He is good and just, and because He is good and just, I believe in His character and, in that, I believe that He would protect the innocent and save babies. 

[00:19:49] And lastly, there is a biblical precedent for babies going to Heaven. This is in 2 Samuel 12. This is when King David’s baby was sick, and then he died. And then David said, “I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” And so David’s basically saying, “I can’t bring him back, but one day I will see him again in Heaven.” And this story was intentionally included in His Word, which gives me confidence that our babies are in Heaven.

[00:20:17] And so there were several different reasons that I put in there. And I think when you combine all of those reasons and you look at the whole picture, there is ample biblical precedent and proof that babies go to Heaven, because it was important for me to include the reason why I believe that in this book.

[00:20:36] And so let’s go back to imagining that beautiful place that I talked about at the beginning of this episode, and just thinking about the fact that you are going to be in that place with your baby. You will be with them forever and ever and ever, and there will be no end. 

And I love reading Revelation, particularly Revelation 20 through 22. In Revelation 21 and 22 really talks a lot about what the New Earth is going to be like.

[00:21:03] We’re not going to need the sun because God Himself will be our light and night will no longer exist. There will be glistening streams and rivers as clear as glass. We’ll run through streets made of pure gold. The throne of God and the Tree of Life will be centered in the New Jerusalem. The New Earth will be the original Creation restored back to the Garden of Eden.

[00:21:23] And I cannot tell you how excited I am to be there! And when I stop and just think about the fact that my daughter is there right now, she is in this perfect, beautiful Paradise. Granted, she is in the current Heaven. She is not on the New Earth yet because she has not received her glorified body. And we are not in that final eternal state yet. She is in Paradise. 

[00:21:46] And how do I know that? It’s because Jesus, when He was on the cross, there was a thief on His left and a thief on His right, and one of them was mocking Him and the other one put their faith in Him and believed in Him and said, “Will You remember me?”

And Jesus said, “Surely you will see Me today in Paradise.”

[00:22:06] And so here we have another biblical example that the current Heaven is a physical place, that He was going to see that man in Heaven, and that He described that current Heaven as Paradise. That is so encouraging to me that the current Heaven is Paradise, and that the coming Heaven is going to be Paradise.

[00:22:28] And so as you think about Heaven and as you imagine what it’s going to be like to be there. I just would love for you to close your eyes and imagine that beautiful place. Whether it’s the mountains, a lake, an ocean, just want you to be there and imagine your child running up to you. 

[00:22:45] Or maybe they’re a baby. Like I said, we don’t know what age and size they’re going to be. But whether you can just picture yourself holding and cradling your baby in your arms, or maybe you’re walking somewhere holding their hands. I just want you to picture that. And I want you to know that that image is going to be far greater and far better than we could ever imagine.

[00:23:07] And it’s going to happen. That reunion is coming. It is a promise of God, and He never breaks His promises. And I am so grateful that Heaven exists and that we have such a hope-filled future to go there one day, that the brokenness of this earth that is filled with sin and death and evil and brokenness, one day we will leave all of that behind in a place where none of that exists anymore. And it’s going to be perfect, and it’s going to be forever.

[00:23:35] Once we’re with our children again, we will never, ever be separated again. And that’s something that just gives me so much hope as I think about Heaven, is that it’s going to be forever. 

And so I would love to close us with a journal prompt and our healing action. The journal prompt is for you to think about what excites you the most about Heaven. Did anything surprise you in this chapter and episode, or did you learn anything new about Heaven? 

And the Healing Step is to read Heaven by Randy Alcorn or another biblically based book on the topic. I also advise you to be sure to always measure everything you read against Scripture, and to read Revelation 21-22 for a wonderful description of the New Earth. So I would love for you to do that. 

[00:24:23] Let me close in prayer. 

Dear Jesus, I just thank You so much for the hope of Heaven, that this earth is not our home, and that one day we will be in Paradise with You and with our babies forever.

Jesus, even though we can’t entirely fathom it, that our eye and our mind cannot fully conceive the wonder and splendor of Heaven, Lord, I just pray that You would give us a peace that washes over us to know that our baby is there in Paradise and is lacking nothing, is in just total beauty, and most importantly is surrounded by You and Your love. 

And so I just thank You that they’re in Heaven and we’re going to be joining them one day, eventually at the Resurrection, we’ll all be in our glorified bodies, and that Your plan is to restore Eden back to its perfect state and to dwell with us on the New Earth, the New Heaven, forever in eternity. 

I’m so grateful for that plan. I am excited and expectant for that. I thank You so much for making a way for us to have this beautiful future with our babies. It’s in Your Son’s name we pray. Amen. 

[00:25:26] Be sure to tune in for the next episode, which will cover Chapter Six, For He is Good: When You Question Who God Is. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:25:37] Thank you for joining me for today’s episode of the Cradled in Hope Podcast Book Club.

New episodes covering each chapter of the book will release on the 1st, 15th, and 22nd of each month through the end of the year—so be sure to subscribe and follow along.

If you don’t have your copy of Cradled in Hope, you can find it wherever books are sold. It’s a biblical guide for grieving moms after miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss—filled with vulnerable emotion, biblical wisdom, practical guidance, and hope-filled encouragement.

To accompany the book, I’ve also created the Cradled in Hope Guided Journal—a beautiful companion that includes space to write your responses to the discussion questions, full Scripture passages from each chapter, and additional reflection pages and guided charts to help you process your grief and draw you closer to Jesus. You can download the free digital version on my author website at AshleyOpliger.com/Journal, or order the printed version on Amazon if you prefer to write by hand.

Until next time, know that you are not alone. You are seen, loved, and Cradled in Hope.