Join us for a hope-filled conversation with Caleb and Stefanie Rouse, relationship mentors and digital creators who focus on guiding couples toward faith-based, resilient relationships.
Caleb and Stefanie share their personal journey of loss, having unexpectedly lost their twin sons, Shiloh and Asher, after years of praying and hoping to grow their family. Despite their heartbreak, they invited God into their pain and allowed Him to heal their hearts. Now, they help other couples find hope, joy, and love in their marriages.
In this episode, we discussed:
Worshiping God in loss and sorrow
Jesus' realness in moments of pain
Processing grief (and differences between spouses)
Wanting to hide and feel shame (and how these are attacks from the enemy)
The importance of a funeral or memorial service for your baby
How God weaves babies in our wombs (and why their spirits live forever)
Using our broken stories for His glory
Openly talking about our babies in Heaven
Fixing our eyes on Heaven
How to feel safe, seen, and loved by your spouse
Why toxic thoughts wreak havoc in marriage
The power of persistent prayer
Full transcript below.
MEET OUR GUESTS
Stefanie and Caleb Rouse are relationship mentors and digital creators passionately guiding singles and couples toward fulfilling and resilient relationships anchored in faith.
With their master’s degrees in marriage and family therapy with an emphasis in theology (Stefanie) and in education (Caleb), they offer tailored courses, mentorship, and guidance. They are the authors of Wholehearted Love, 52 Prayers for Your Husband, and 52 Prayers for Your Wife.
Caleb and Stefanie lost their twin sons, Shiloh and Asher. Their vision is a world where we learn to love each other out of God’s abundance of love, leading to impactful and joyous relationships.
Connect with Caleb & Stefanie:
Caleb Instagram: @calebjasonrouse
Stefanie Instagram: @stefanielrouse
Caleb Facebook: @calebjasonrouse
Stefanie Instagram: @stefanielrouse
Website: www.stefanieandcaleb.com
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MEET OUR HOST
Ashley Opliger is the Executive Director of Bridget's Cradles, a nonprofit organization based in Wichita, Kansas that donates cradles to over 1,500 hospitals in all 50 states and comforts over 30,000 bereaved families a year.
Ashley is married to Matt and they have three children: Bridget (in Heaven), and two sons. She is a follower of Christ who desires to share the hope of Heaven with families grieving the loss of a baby.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 55 | Wholehearted Love through Pregnancy Loss | Caleb & Stefanie Rouse
Ashley Opliger: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley Opliger. I’m a wife, mom, and follower of Christ who founded Bridget’s Cradles, a nonprofit ministry in memory of my daughter, Bridget, who was stillborn at 24 weeks.
Cradled in Hope is a Gospel-focused podcast for grieving moms to find comfort, hope, and healing after the loss of a baby. We want this to be a safe place for your broken heart to land.
Here, we are going to trust God’s promise to heal our hearts, restore our joy, and use our grief for good. With faith in Jesus and eyes fixed on Heaven, we do not have to grieve without hope. We believe that Jesus cradles us in hope while He cradles our babies in Heaven.
Welcome to the Cradled in Hope Podcast.
Ashley Opliger: [00:00:49] Welcome back to another episode of Cradled in Hope. I am so honored to have Stefanie and Caleb Rouse with me today. They are dynamic relationship mentors and digital creators passionate about guiding singles and couples toward fulfilling and resilient relationships anchored in faith.
With their Master's degree in Marriage and Family Therapy, with an emphasis in Theology and in Education, they offer tailored courses, mentorship, and guidance. These are all rooted in prayer, backed by training in psychology and biblical counseling, encouragement from Christ, and practical strategies for love that lasts.
They speak to an engaged audience across multiple social media platforms, and Stefanie and Caleb provide these daily insights into the transformative power of faith across all relationship stages. Their vision is a world where we learn to love each other out of God's abundance of love, leading to impactful and joyous relationships.
Caleb and Stefanie lost their twin baby boys, Shiloh and Asher. They are going to share their story of grieving with faith. Let's listen now.
Ashley Opliger: [00:01:50] Welcome, Caleb and Stefanie, to the Cradled in Hope Podcast.
Caleb Rouse: [00:01:54] Awesome.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:01:54] Thanks for having us, Ashley. We're glad to be here.
Ashley Opliger: [00:01:54] Well, we are so honored to have you and we're looking forward to hearing Shiloh and Asher's story and learning more about you and your ministry and the work that you do for couples. And so would you introduce yourselves for our audience of grieving parents?
Caleb Rouse: [00:02:13] Wow. Yeah, so we're Caleb and Stefanie, and we are online relationship coaches. And we live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and we help singles and married couples find wholehearted love in their lives to break free from the past of pain or whatever it is as part of their story to just gain freedom and have thriving relationships in the future.
And we had our own heartbreaking story a couple of years ago, which was so sad to lose our boys, Shiloh and Asher. But we just want to encourage people to pursue God in the midst of their pain and allow God into their pain, because that's where we can really find the healing that we need in our lives.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:02:53] Caleb and I have been married 11 years now, and we have always loved kids.
All of our jobs always involved, he was doing youth ministry, pouring back to the next generation, being a teacher, and just so much to love on the little ones that are nieces and nephews, and just had fear surrounding everything with kids because of different things in the past in our lives, but something that we always prayed for, that God would bless us with a baby.
And we had all kind of friends and family praying for us for years. And when we really took prayer to the next level was 2020, we were in LA and didn't know why we were not getting pregnant. We would go to different marriage retreats, and people would pray for us that we could have a baby. And we had a lot of prayer the one year, and we actually went to the doctors to get some testing done in LA.
We couldn't do it in 2020 because you couldn't get into the doctor's office or anything. So it was 2022 that we were going to find out: Is everything okay? And we had one appointment learning about our story, and then we had one scheduled for the day after his birthday.
I took a pregnancy test as my period was late and, yeah, and found out we were pregnant on his birthday. And it was just the best day of our lives and we just had so much fun, and we couldn't believe it!
And we still went to the appointment the next day, and the doctor was just rejoicing, and we just were like, “Wow, this is such a testament of Your faithfulness, Lord,” and elated and just couldn't believe it and so happy and getting to tell. We didn't tell everyone yet, but telling our parents that had been praying for so long and all of those things.
And I was growing really quickly. I mean, I've never been pregnant before. I didn't know what was normal, but I didn't know at that time I was pregnant with twins, but I seemed way farther ahead than I would have thought. At three months, my stomach and my body had, it's like, “Huh, this is a lot,” but I just didn't know anything different.
We were traveling, we were at his family's house in LA, so we were a little bit late for our three-month appointment, we had to push it back because we were in LA. And when we went in for the appointment for the ultrasound, we saw our two babies and they looked so perfect.
And then we saw the person said nothing, they didn't open their mouth. They didn't say a word but we saw Baby A and then we saw her write Baby B. And both of our eyes, like, “What?” And they just looked so perfect.
And we're like, “Maybe she's just being quiet,” because she wasn't expecting to be two.
Caleb Rouse: [00:05:40] She’s searching for babies, yeah.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:05:40] And here’s, there are more? And we're like, “Oh my gosh, is there a third in there?” She was being so quiet, and it was awkward, but we also felt a sense of, it was so awkward she didn't say anything.
And we didn't hear anything. We never have gone through this before, so we didn't know if we were supposed to, we thought we were supposed to hear something, and we didn't hear anything, and we saw them.
And so anyway, she asked me to go to the restroom to do a vaginal ultrasound, and at that point my heart just dropped, and I was just like, “Caleb, I don't … Are they okay? Are they okay? I think we have two!” We just had these really mixed emotions because it was like the happiest we felt, but then we were so nervous.
And then she said, “I'm not hearing a heartbeat.” And so then after more checking and everything that they didn't have a heartbeat and they had probably had been passed away for several weeks at that point, based on their size and all those things. But my body and my uterine wall, it was still all growing.
They said my uterine wall was measuring six months pregnant because of two and just different things. And they said, “This could be really dangerous. We need to get you into surgery.”
It was just the weirdest experience to go from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows.
Caleb Rouse: [00:07:04] Just not how we thought it was going to go at all.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:07:07] And so scary because they had such a sense of urgency based on worrying about my health and just certain things that they said. And so we kept asking, “Is there any way one of them could be alive? Is there any way, and could you check again?” And they were so gracious to check more for us. Even the day of, the next day was the surgery and they were so gracious to check.
Because I was like, “Couldn't one be alive? Couldn't they just be growing? Maybe you can't hear it enough.” It was just the denial of, “That can't be true.” Like, “Maybe just one could be.” When we were praying and we called some friends of praying, of, “Maybe they could just not have heard it or something was wrong.”
And then they were so gracious to us to really check so many times. And we never walked through anyone with a miscarriage before and losing their unborn.
We have so many friends with kids, but we had never walked through or known of anyone in our families. Neither of our moms have had miscarriages, and none of our friends that we knew at the time, now come to find that one of my good friends had, she just had not told anyone of, she has three other babies. And she actually reached out and it was like,
And then different people ended up reaching out when we shared online, but we had no idea what to do. And I remember just being like, “What do they do with our babies at the hospital?” And we were just so confused, and God led us to such beautiful direction.
Ashley Opliger: [00:08:32] I'm just so incredibly sorry for your losses and for what you walked through. Just such a blindsiding moment where you're going in expecting to see, you're probably thinking, this one little healthy baby, and then you find out there's two souls in your womb, and that's just joyous, especially after praying so long and desiring children and having so many people in your family pray.
And so just to be elated with this joyful news and then blindsided with this awful sad news all in the same day, in the same moment, really. And so I just, I really feel for you in that moment and what you’re walking through.
But I've also seen such beauty come from your pain. I haven't known you very long, but just from the ministry and the resources that you're putting out for families and pointing people to the hope of Jesus through your pain.
And so I'd love to hear some of those things that really helped you in the early days of grief and then transition into what it looked like for you to grieve together as a couple.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:09:38] Thank you so much, Ashley. It's such a beautiful place you have for people to be able to come and know that they're not alone, because I felt so alone. So the fact that you're giving this gift to other people, that they can know that they're not alone, it's just really, really powerful.
And so that day we were just, “What do we do?” And we were just crying and just mourning so much. And then I asked Caleb and then he said, “We praise God.”
And that's when we put on a worship song. We were sitting and cuddling on the couch and just worshiping, and we did that all night, just kept in so much of the unknown of just, “Well, God, You are worthy of worship no matter what,”
Our whole lives, it was just like the wind got knocked out of us, the rug pulled out. We were just so upside down. “What do we do?” It just felt horrible and I was in so much physical pain as well. But then we were just like, “We worship God.”
And it was crazy even that first day, I feel like, having the peace that surpasses all understanding. It didn't mean that I wasn't so sad and grieving, but just God's peace that is so real that you know that you know that you know.
This peace doesn't come from anything in the world, not because of our circumstance, not because of anything, but how beautiful Jesus is and how powerful and how real He is in those moments, where it makes no sense to have a sense of peace and joy and hope because of knowing that this isn't the end of the story, that they are with Jesus and that He's worthy and He's good no matter what our circumstances are.
Caleb Rouse: [00:11:18] Yeah. And I think as we started to navigate from there, Stefanie just dove right into anything and everything that they said would be a possible healthy grieving process. And so we got any book I felt like she wanted. We just got it. We read it. And it just tried to do like-
Stefanie Rouse: [00:11:18] Christian.
Caleb Rouse: [00:11:18] Yeah, Christian, grieving the loss of babies. And we read those and anything it said to do or try, we jumped in and tried to do that.
And that allowed us instead of, I think, the pull for people, and I understand why would be to pull back and to pull within themselves. I know for guys or for men or for husbands, that's something that we do. So we focus on taking care of our wives in that process, and then we kind of pull away, in a sense.
And I think what was so helpful for me was to watch her just be so active in that and then jumping in. Even though it might be scary to be open about how I felt or to celebrate in a certain way or to just process it, we just did it. And I think that really helped me to be able to process that.
And it's still, I'm a slow burn just in general. So when things happen to me, I process a lot of my stuff internally and over time, so it takes me like 10 times longer to process things than it does for her, but I still felt like I was actively trying to process through those things.
And so we just were really active from the beginning. I'd say that's one thing for us that really has been helpful and helped us was to just lean in to what God wanted to do in that season and to lean into resources and help and asking people and talking about it.
I think so many people, because of shame, don't talk about it. And it's not a shameful thing. It's something that is unfortunate that happens, but it doesn't mean that you're not good enough or that that couple is not good enough. The wife, that's not what this is about. It's just a sad, bad thing that happened. But God is still good and He still takes care of us. And so just reminding and remembering that in the midst of it I think is so important.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:13:28] Yeah. Yeah, that was so helpful.
I remember, because as content creators and we share on Instagram like Monday through Friday, there's been times where God has had us take times of not posting for a month to just have more time with Him. But other than that, we're just so consistent. And I remember after that happened, I just wanted to climb in a hole and be like, “I'm not ever going to post on Instagram again.”
That's my initial feelings, of just wanting to never come out of this cocoon again, that just of being hidden. And remember this lie of like, I felt this big attack, even if it was like that second day or whatever, the day after, next day, just like, “Your voice doesn't matter now.
You don't have a right to share your story. No one knew anyway, so you can keep this hidden.”
I remember we got to process that together, and I really felt like that was from the enemy and like it was in shame and because I was believing that something was wrong with me and that other people would see that if I shared that. Or something wasn't good enough with me or all of these lies.
And then I heard God's still, quiet voice of, “I want you to share. Do not hide. Do not hide from Me. Do not hide from Caleb and don't hide from the world that I'm calling you to love on and to be a light, even in the pain. You can show My glory even through your pain.”
And so we prayed and we leaned into that. And I don't know if it was the next day or the day after, I shared about what happened on Instagram, even though there was that big pull not to.
But because I did that, the next day I got a devotional in the mail from someone, a friend from back in the day that sent me this really powerful devotional, and then other people reaching out. And so because I shared, it helped us with so much of what to do and good resources and that I wasn't alone, versus if I was hidden, I wouldn't have known those things.
I mean, I downloaded some books like the book, Holding On to Love After You've Lost a Baby by Gary Chapman and Candy, and I downloaded that the first day, I think, or the next day, because I was like, “What do I do?”
And I remember calling the hospital and saying, “Do you have our babies?”
And they said, “Yeah.”
And we called a funeral home and this amazing woman answered. And I was so nervous to make that call.
Caleb Rouse: [00:15:54] She was terrified.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:15:54] I was shaking and just like, “This is not what I thought was the call I was ever going to make,” and just asking her.
And I told her what happened, and she said, “Oh, your babies are so loved by Jesus and they are so special. We would love to honor them. And with no charge at all, we have these beautiful little caskets for them. We can take them. We'll pick them up from the hospital and put them in their little caskets, and then you can honor them.”
And she did that all for us. Her name is Peggy, and she just did that for us. And she came to our home with the most beautiful little casket, and it was so honoring. And she prayed and we had a prayer time in our home, and it was just so healing.
And then it took a while, I think it was like a month before that all happened, but we got to have a little funeral for them with close family and friends and a friend of ours that was a musician that sang some worship songs, and our pastor that came to give a little talk.
And those are all things that I would have never thought to do. I didn't know what they did. I had no framework. I'd never heard of that. And it was just so helpful for us to grieve that.
And remembering in that book by Candy and Gary, that they talked about doing that. And even families that hadn't ever grieved after it was like 20 years, they had never had a funeral or they never had processed that. I remember a story, like someone in the book ended up like 20 years later having a funeral because there was so much unprocessed grief in not saying goodbye, just hearing that.
And so it was helpful for us to name them and to do that for us. That was just really healing to know they are with Jesus and to picture them in Heaven with Him and to celebrate their lives,
And I remember feeling, I tell friends who walk through it because they're like, “Oh, I was only pregnant six weeks,” people invalidate their grief and saying, I tell them, “Who else has lived inside of you for six weeks? There's no closer relationship. Who else lives inside of your body for that long?”
That is a very long time to live in, that is the closest to someone has ever been, to live inside of me for those three months or those six weeks or whatever it is. And it helped me and helps validate if you're feeling so much pain you don't have to shove under because although you haven't seen their faces, that closeness of relationship and the way you guys are woven together, they're being woven inside of your womb.
And then for the male, I know that is different, and he has had his own process with that. But for the woman, that knowledge of, “Yes, this was a part of me.”
Ashley Opliger: [00:18:45] Yeah. And biblically speaking, as Christians, we believe that life begins at conception. And so at that moment, their eternal soul and spirit was created.
And in my book, I talk about how as humans, we’re made of three parts. Just like God is the Trinity and is made of three parts, as humans, we have a body, which is like the tent of us, and then we have a soul, and then our innermost is the spirit, and the spirit is what never dies, that we're immortal and we're going to live somewhere for eternity. Right?
And so at that moment, when I was studying Psalm 139 and this knitting and this weaving that happens in our wombs, like you're saying, this is such a sacred thing when God puts life in our womb. And it happens from the moment that conception happens. This weaving is not just of organs and tendons and bones and skin of a child. This is also talking about this weaving of spirit and soul that God creates.
And so for the mom who lost a baby at five weeks versus five months versus five days after birth, regardless of the gestation, that soul has already been woven and has an eternal soul. And so I always share that with moms because it's so important to know the part of the baby that never died, regardless of how old their body was, which is just their tent, their earthly tent; they're in Heaven, and we’re going to get to see them again for all of eternity. And so I hope that comforts someone.
And I also just want to touch back, Stefanie, with something you said about the enemy just really putting you in this place of wanting to censor your testimony and silence you. I think that's what Satan does best, is tries to censor and silence us from sharing our testimony.
And really, I believe Jesus uses the broken parts of our lives and our stories for His glory. People don't relate to us in our strengths. People relate to us in our brokenness and our weakness. And there's this verse that I've really been clinging to. It's 2 Corinthians 12:9-10.
The NIV says, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect and weakness. Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on me.”
But there's a different version, I believe it's the NLT, it says, “My power works best in weakness.”
Stefanie Rouse: [00:21:06] Wow.
Ashley Opliger: [00:21:06] And just that ‘works best in weakness’ really hit home to me, is that when we're weak, when we're going through grief and trials and pain and loss and suffering, these things that we wish weren't part of our stories, those are the parts that God is going to use for His glory and for the good of us in our sanctification and for other people.
Ashley Opliger: [00:21:27] We hope you are enjoying this episode so far. We want to take a quick break to tell you about some resources our ministry provides to grieving moms.
On our website, bridgetscradles.com, you can find hope-filled resources on grieving and healing including memorial ideas, quotes & Scripture, featured stories, and recommended books and other organizations. We share ideas on how to navigate difficult days such as due dates, Heaven Days, and holidays.
In addition, every month I lead Christ-centered support groups for bereaved moms called Hope Gatherings, both in-person and online. You can find a list of upcoming dates and sign up for our next support group on our website.
Lastly, we would love for you to connect with us on Facebook and Instagram. You can find us on these three pages: @bridgetscradles, @cradledinhope, and my personal page @ashleyopliger. You can also join our private Cradled in Hope Facebook group for grieving moms to find community. We would be honored to hear your baby’s story and be praying for you by name. Now let’s get back to our episode.
Ashley Opliger: [00:22:36] I love that the Holy Spirit really convicted you in that moment of hiding, saying, “I'm not going to let this be something that I have shame over. I'm not going to let this be something that shuts down my ministry and makes me stop using my voice for the Kingdom.”
So I love that you're sharing in your weakness and sharing their stories because they have legacies, just like we have legacies. The length of time that we live on earth, I don't believe has any say on what our legacy is. And sometimes, these little babies have such an impactful eternal Kingdom ministry and legacy.
Caleb Rouse: [00:23:17] Yeah, absolutely.
Ashley Opliger: [00:23:14] So I love that about your story.
Caleb Rouse: [00:23:17] Yeah, I think that's been so powerful. I'm so proud of her for just being willing to talk to people about it.
She created that resource on our website that people can go to, and it's a free resource and it's a free ebook that they can just have help in the process of grieving.
And so I'm just so proud of Stefanie for doing things like that where she, “I'm here in the trenches and we're here in the hard and the pain and all of that,“ and then just to see her fight through that and then be willing to help other people has been so powerful.
So I'm so proud of you, babe, for always putting yourself out there and doing things like this, because I know it's not always easy to talk about. But we just know that God is in the business of redemption and newness, and our babies are just so honored.
And one thing I always tell people is we prayed from the moment we ever thought about having kids. And then when we found out we were having a baby, we prayed that they would know Jesus so well every day of their whole life.
And then God answered that prayer, but just in a different way. They knew Jesus; literally they've known Jesus their whole lives, the second that they went to be with Him. And just how powerful that is is an amazing thing, and just a different way of looking at it and they've been able to be with Him.
The other thing I was going to say that has really helped me to be able to have a voice just in my everyday interactions is just like any couple people will ask, “Oh, do you have kids?” Or, “Oh, how many kids do you have,” or this or that.
We get asked that all the time, especially being in ministry. We go to ministry conferences, all that. And very early on, we made the conscious decision now, whenever somebody asks us that question, instead of saying, “No,” we would always say, “Yeah, we have two babies in Heaven.”
And that sparks all kind of different reactions and conversations. Sometimes it doesn't register and people say, “Oh, that's so great,” or something. And then, “Wait a second.”
Stefanie Rouse: [00:25:11] And then they say, “Oh wait,” because they think we just said two babies or something.
Caleb Rouse: [00:25:12] Yeah. But I think every time it leads to an honoring of them, our babies. And also it's like a wall-breaker. People either can meet us in this deep place immediately.
And we were going to Australia recently. We went to Australia to officiate a client's wedding. And getting ready to go on the plane, this lady was talking to us and we said that. And then-
Stefanie Rouse: [00:25:37] She asked, “How many kids do you have?”
Like, “Two in Heaven.” And then she just started opening up about her son that had died.
Caleb Rouse: [00:25:42] About all kinds of stuff.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:25:42] And then all these things. And like you said, that moment of sharing our pain actually opens up other people to be seen.
Caleb Rouse: [00:25:49] Yeah, whether they're Christian or not, it's an amazing … We get people from all ends, and it's so interesting to be able to talk to them. And then I feel like I get to honor my babies just in those moments.
At first it was really awkward to do that. Just being honest, it was really hard for me to do that, to say that. But now I just say it like, “I have a wife. I have two babies in Heaven and they're amazing.” And that has helped me process and has helped me to be able to, like I said, just honor them in every day.
Ashley Opliger: [00:26:20] Yeah, and that's the truth of the story. I mean, you do have two babies in Heaven, and you are a family of four.
I speak of it as our Kingdom family. I mean, we still put Bridget's name on our Christmas card every year. We're 10 years out, and we'll always do that. And that's just how we've chosen to do it. And that's not to put judgment on any family who chooses to do things differently or handle that question differently.
But I do agree with you. And I've always been the same when people ask me how many kids I have. I've gone on to have two little boys, and they're seven and three now, but I always say I have three kids. I have a daughter in Heaven, and I have two boys on earth.
And coming back to something you said, Caleb, for me as a mom now, I know that one of my children's salvation is certain. Bridget is in Heaven with Jesus, and my job as a mom is to disciple my boys' hearts to Jesus.
And so it is interesting looking at it from that perspective, because I don't have to worry about Bridget. Because with my boys I have to worry about the enemy and temptation, the world's deception and corruption on their hearts.
And so when you look at it from that perspective, knowing their salvation is certain and that we will get to see them and they are part of your eternal family, it is honoring to their lives and the truth of your story to share them.
And to your point, vulnerability really does breed vulnerability. When you share with people, you might get a couple of people that don't really know how to respond to that, and that's okay.
But most of the time, I do believe that it's going to be met with vulnerability and people opening up and sharing their stories. And truly, I think that's where so many conversations can start, is just being open about your grief and your pain and your story.
So many of my friends now are other grieving moms that I've met and gotten to know because of Bridget, which is pretty special to think my daughter in Heaven has given me some of my very best friends on earth, because I've shared about her and other moms have opened up to me.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:28:20] Wow.
Ashley Opliger: [00:28:20] But I do want to come back, Caleb, you mentioned the devotional that Stefanie put together for grieving moms and families. And so I want to bring that up. The name of it is called Grieving With Faith, a Devotional For Support After the Loss of Your Unborn or Newborn Baby. And that is available on your website. So would you mind sharing how they can go and get a free copy of that devotional?
Stefanie Rouse: [00:28:41] Yeah.
Caleb Rouse: [00:28:42] Yeah. So you can just go to our website, which is www.stefanieandcaleb.com. And then I-
Stefanie Rouse: [00:28:48] It’s Stefanie with an F.
Caleb Rouse: [00:28:49] Yes, Stefanie with an F, not P-H. And then you can scroll down. I believe that we have all of our ebooks listed and it's in line with those and you click on it, and then you put your name and email and we get it right to you as soon as possible.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:29:03] Yeah, and it tells little stories. I mean, I wrote it while I was grieving and telling little stories of things I was learning and different resources and different things. And just as you're saying, as you were grieving and remembering Bridget's life, I see this way that, at least it seems to me, that this value on life that was even unlocked more.
Caleb Rouse: [00:29:27] Yeah.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:29:27] And that's how we felt. As we were studying Scripture, as we were diving in and as we were [reading] Psalm 139 and these different verses that we were really seeking, because I never had walked through this like I said, and didn't know, and I didn't necessarily hear too much of what people had to say.
But as I read God's Word on it, I'm like, “Oh my goodness!” Like you said, the intrinsic value of a soul, no matter how long or short, is immeasurable, that Jesus loves us all. We're all made in His image and we're going to spend eternity somewhere.
We're just knowing that our boys, Shiloh and Asher, are in Heaven and that we'll see them. And just even his dad recently had a dream of them playing in Heaven and watching them play around in a field and just thinking of that, I don't know how Heaven exactly is going to be, but just knowing that this isn't the end in this place.
And to me, it's given us this bigger picture of eternity. When I worship, I imagine them worshiping Jesus. Like I just, I love to worship because when I worship and raise my hands to my Heavenly father, I think of them raising their hands and the other people, like our grandparents and other close people we love that we've lost that know Him, that are all in that.
Like, “You are worthy of it all, Jesus,” and that connection that I feel, that's what eternity, like, I don't feel so far away when I'm thinking of Heaven, and it's helped me to understand Heaven a little more and understand the beauty of life.
Caleb Rouse: [00:31:02] Yeah, absolutely.
Ashley Opliger: [00:31:03] That's so beautiful. And I agree 100 percent that as a grieving mom, your heart is just so connected to Heaven because a part of literally your flesh and your blood is there in Heaven, and it's your precious child made in His image, which, you're exactly right, of all God's Creation, humans are the only creation that He made in His image that has that eternal spirit.
And so we are just so precious to Him and we're so connected to Heaven because someone we love so much, our children, they're there. And we know that we're going to spend forever with them.
And I think for me, it's just kept my eyes fixed on Heaven. I always say I'm homesick for Heaven. I just want to be there. I can't wait to be there with them, worshiping God, specifically the New Earth.
When God creates the New Heaven, the New Earth, and we're walking on a brand new earth, there's no longer any sin or death or pain or suffering or mourning, all of those things have passed away. That's what I focus on, is what that's going to be like, running around with our kids and just knowing we'll never ever be separated from them again.
Caleb Rouse: [00:32:10] Yeah.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:32:11] I love that.
Caleb Rouse: [00:32:10] I love that.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:32:12] That image, it's so beautiful to think of. Thank you for sharing.
Ashley Opliger: [00:32:12] I love reading Revelation 20 through 22, just because that paints the picture of the New Heaven and the New Earth.
And that's really the end story for us as Christians. This is where everything's going and heading to. Even though the world's getting darker and darker, we know that it is going to get worse before it gets better, we have this glorious future in Heaven to look forward to. And so the end of the story is good, and it ends in perfect Paradise with God Himself.
But I want to talk a little bit, as we close this podcast episode, about your books, because you also have a book called Wholehearted Love, and you have some books on prayer and specifically for praying for your spouse. And so, can you talk about both of those books and also how they relate to grieving parents?
Stefanie Rouse: [00:33:04] Yeah. So Wholehearted Love, it was really interesting, right before we found out we were pregnant is when our publisher came to our house and was with us for several days as we were planning and storyboarding everything. And then after Shiloh and Asher's death, we wrote the rest of the book, Wholehearted Love.
And the book is about loving God and others and yourself in this whole way. And the pain that can hinder us and makes us want to hide, makes us want to put a mask on, to others and even to God.
And so it's interesting that we're writing this, God's timing is so interesting because He knew that He wanted us to write that book. It had been on our hearts for so long, but then we're writing it in a time that the last thing we wanted to do is be wholehearted.
And the things that we share in the book are things that we actually were walking through and doing that were bringing healing and hope. And it's all things that we tell people and tell our clients. We know it works on our clients, but just seeing it in our lives of God ministering to us as we're writing of this is what we know that you're calling us to do, God. And as we do it, we're seeing the way we get to connect together.
The enemy wants to use everything to divide a marriage and he definitely uses pain to want to divide and to have different ways that we grieve. And we even talk about that a little bit in the book of just different ways that people handle the pain in their lives and how that comes across differently.
And we can see that, see, “Oh, he's the enemy or he doesn't care. He doesn't this, or she's not this,” but instead it's a book that I really feel like the goal, in what we've heard from people, is to have so much more compassion on themselves and others to see each other more through the way God sees.
That's my goal. If people could read it, see others not just from a human perspective, but more closely to how God sees them in all of the complexities of what we hold as humans and the pain we hold, and to have that love and compassion for one another. And then really tangible tools of how to make that happen.
It's very practical, it’s things that you can actually do. It's not these like crazy, massive steps, but manageable goals that you can do to be able to have your heart more open to God and the right people and to have a healthier relationship with your spouse, even through different areas of pain.
Caleb Rouse: [00:35:27] Amen. Yeah, that's exactly what that book's all about.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:35:31] And then our next two, the 52 …
Caleb Rouse: [00:35:32] Yeah. We have two more books that are now going to be coming out in January. And they are 52 Prayers For Your Wife and 52 Prayers For Your Husband. And these books are either companion books or one that a wife can do by herself or a husband can do by themselves.
And it's just a prayer on a topic that usually comes with a story about something that we've gone through in our lives. And then we have a prayer that goes with it, and then an action step you can take by yourself, and then an action step you can take with your husband or wife together. And it's 52, so one for every week of the year, which is amazing.
And so we're so excited about this because prayer has been such a massive part of our marriage, our ministry, and has been the foundation of just with God processing through pain, processing through joy and all kind of everything in between.
And so we just believe that prayer is such a foundational piece in your marriage. And if you can just bite off a little bit, little piece of that every single week, it will move mountains. Jesus said that we can literally move a mountain if we have the faith. And so we can move the mountains that our marriages face, if we can pray with God and spend time with that, and if we just have faith together and for our marriages.
And so we're really excited about that, those two books and they look awesome, so we’re pumped.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:36:53] They’re really beautiful. And they're tiny. They can go with you anywhere, really good, giftable things.
But as we've been both rereading them through, it's just like really praying that couples would just fall more in love with each other and more in love with Jesus. Instead of complaining and nagging, it really brings forth trust in God in each area, a lot of different areas that a marriage faces. And to see each other on the same team and fighting together in prayer versus fighting each other.
Ashley Opliger: [00:37:21] Yeah. No, I love that. And I love the subtitle in Wholehearted Love. The ending says, “Delight in Feeling Safe, Seen, and Loved.” And I think so often in grief, the enemy really wants us to feel none of those things, wants us to feel unloved and not seen and not safe and abandoned by God, and to put that tension in marriage, where it's like, “Well, they’re not grieving the way I’m grieving.” Or, “They must not care about our baby.”
I've heard that from so many women, that they’re just like, “Well, my husband doesn’t seem like he's grieving, and so it makes me feel like he doesn't care.” And that's just kind of a stigma or whatever. But I've heard it different ways with different personalities. And I think, like you said, the enemy really will use pain to divide. And that's what he wants to do, is to destroy marriages.
And so I think there's a lot of power in praying for each other and praying together because that feeling safe, seen, and loved, that's a goal. Right? To feel that way with your spouse and with God. And especially in grief, when you're in so much pain, it's hard to feel that.
So do you have any real quick tips on some of those practical things that you were talking about from the book? If our listeners are in that space right now with their spouse, just some easy things that they can start doing right away, mending the relationship and feeling safe, seen, and loved?
Caleb Rouse: [00:38:44] Well, I'll share for wives and for husbands, your husband does care about your baby or babies, and he's just looking for a safe space, just like you are, to be able to talk about it, to process through it and to really process through the pain of that happening and just what that means for him.
And I know for me, I'm used to really putting myself out there all the time emotionally with our book and with different things. And so I would just say practice just giving that safe space. And when he talks about it, just give him the safety to be able to talk about it. And it might take a long time, but as you provide a safe opportunity for him, he'll feel safe to be able to share about it.
Because he does care, whether he can admit that or not, he does care. And he deeply loves your babies. And so I would just say asking him about it in a safe way, in a safe tone.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:39:38] And in a safe time.
Caleb Rouse: [00:43:25] And in a safe time, when he's not stressed out, I think, is a great opportunity for him to start being able to process. And if it's only a little bit, many little bits over time create a lot. And so I think it'll help him process. And I know you had something too.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:39:53] Yeah. I know part of our book, we talk about the toxic thoughts that we believe about ourselves and others, so things like we're not good enough, we're unloved. Or a toxic thought like, “My husband doesn't care.” That toxic thought can then feel reinforced when you're seeing things like him not talking about it or him just dismissing it or him not knowing how to handle if you're crying, that he wants to run away from pain.
And we would say, instead of seeing it in that way, of, “He doesn't care and these are the reasons I can see from his actions he doesn't care,” to know the truth from God and to know, first of all, God cares.
And so even if someone didn't care, that God cares so deeply and to know that place and that God sees you and God wants to sit with you and to have you filled up with that truth and that knowledge, even when your husband isn't meeting that need is really powerful.
Because there's so many times Caleb and I did meet that need for each other, but then there was other times we were in a different space. And so to go to God first for those things, and when Caleb couldn't be everything I needed him to be and I couldn't be everything he needed me to be, that God can be everything that we need.
And so God filled up those empty places. He reminded me of the truth and then also knowing that our husbands do process things differently. So instead of, “They don't care,” maybe just the way that they've processed pain has always been one way. And it's easier for them to play sports, to go out and golf, to go do something to distract them, watch football, it helps them.
It's like a coping mechanism for them, that for women, oh, we're sitting and crying. And for a guy, it might look different and it might feel different.
And they are going to process the same. And so to acknowledge that just because they do it differently doesn't mean they love me less, doesn't mean they care less. And there's definitely a different process.
And so for me, and for what we walk you through in that book, I would say, “Hey,” really recognizing this toxic thought, “Think about what you're thinking about. What narrative are you saying about your husband? About your marriage? And is it reflecting what God would say about your marriage and your husband,” and learning to see through those spiritual eyes versus just what you see on paper, because it could have a different meaning than what we're interpreting it as. And how we interpret it really matters.
And so when we switch the interpretation to see the best in the other person, it really unlocked him to have that compassion. And then like Caleb said, we know now we've talked to a lot of guys that have gone through this, that they do care. They just process it in a lot of different way. They don't know. They had a longing for that baby. That was their DNA too, that was what they cared about.
It can be more scary to be vulnerable just based on how they were brought up and how they process and they feel things differently. They didn't have the baby inside their body. Sometimes it takes longer.
Caleb Rouse: [00:42:49] Different experience, yeah.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:42:49] It's a different experience. But to know they care and they process differently.
Ashley Opliger: [00:42:55] Yeah. That is also good.
I love that you shared about toxic thoughts because I think sometimes our thought life can just spiral and become more toxic. And when you're believing those things, and like you said that the different actions might support that feeling, and then you just keep spiraling. And so getting out of that by using Scripture and seeing the best in each other, that's just such great advice. So thank you.
I know we need to wrap up, but I'd love for everybody to know how they can get copies of your books, where they're sold, and also how they could connect with you.
Caleb Rouse: [00:43:25] Our books are sold everywhere that books are sold. So Amazon, Target, Barnes & Noble, Christian Books. You can get those there or through our website.
If you go to our website, stefanieandcaleb.com, Stefanie with an F, and you can go there and find our new books that are coming out. You can also find Wholehearted Love.
The main place that we're at right now, just online, is on Instagram. So you can find me @calebjasonrouse. Yes. I wrote my whole name.
And it's Stefanie with an F period Rouse, so @stefanie.rouse on Instagram, you can find us there and you can easily get connected. Every post there's an opportunity to connect with us and we have keywords and then we send your resources right away. So yeah, we'd love to connect to the guys and yeah, this is such a blessing. Thank you so much, Ashley, for this time.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:44:14] Yes, thank you, Ashley.
Ashley Opliger: [00:44:14] Yes, thank you.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:44:14] And thank you for the way you honor your daughter, Bridget-
Caleb Rouse: [00:44:17] Yes, we are encouraged.
Stefanie Rouse: [00:44:17] … and the gift that she is playing with Shiloh and Asher, and maybe today.
Ashley Opliger: [00:44:21] Yes, and maybe they are, I believe they are. They're looking down on us smiling right now. So thank you for your time and for sharing their story.
And for everyone listening, all the links that they just shared, those will be linked in our show notes on our website so you can go get connected to their website and their Instagram and find their books as well.
Thank you so much for being here. Caleb, would you mind closing us in prayer?
Caleb Rouse: [00:44:44] Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Dear Heavenly Father, I just thank You so much for this time, God. You just honor our babies, God. You put them just before You.
We thank you for each and every moment we had. We thank You for the moments that we got to share with them, for the moments we process with You, God, that it all leads us closer, growing closer to You, God.
I just pray for all the listeners, God, that they would feel so seen, known, heard, and loved, Father, today, that they don't have to run away but they can run towards You.
And God, you're waiting there with open arms. You're holding their babies, God. And you have a beautiful, amazing plan for their lives and for this pain and for everything they're going through, God.
So I pray that the couples would just come closer together and not go further apart, God, that the walls would break down, that grace would cover everything, God.
God, You are close to the brokenhearted, and You rescue those who are crushed in spirit, Father. You are not far. You're close. And I pray, God, just blessings over them, blessings over Ashley and this amazing podcast and ministry. God, just keep reaching people around the world that are just going through a hard thing.
And God, we thank You, and we love Yo,u and we pray Your blessing over this day in the Name of Jesus. Amen
Ashley Opliger: [00:45:55] Amen. Thank you so much.
Ashley Opliger: [00:45:59] Thank you for listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. We pray that you found hope & healing in today’s episode.
Don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss new episodes when they release on the 1st of every month. You can also find this episode’s show notes and a full transcript on our website at bridgetscradles.com/podcast.
Be sure to leave your email address so that we can keep you updated on podcast episodes, upcoming support groups, and other hope-filled resources.
If you’re interested in volunteering or donating to Bridget’s Cradles in memory of a baby in Heaven, you can find information on our website on how you can get involved and spread hope to other grieving families.
One way you can help is by leaving a review of this podcast on iTunes [or the Apple Podcasts app]. Consider the minute of your time as a way YOU can personally share the hope that you’ve found here with another mom whose heart is broken and needs healing.
Thank you so much for listening and sharing. Until next time, we will be praying for you. And remember, as Jesus cradles our babies in Heaven, He cradles us in hope. Though we may grieve, we do not grieve without hope. Thank you so much for listening.
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