Join us for a hope-filled conversation with Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague from Jessica's House, a dedicated grief support center for children and families. Erin shares her personal journey through loss and how her experiences gave her a passion for supporting others. Colleen provides insights into her role as a therapist and highlights their Heartstrings program, which supports children grieving the loss of a sibling due to pregnancy or infant loss.
In their discussion on their new book, When Grief Comes Home, Erin and Colleen explore ways in which grieving parents can effectively support their children in their grief. They delve into the power of expressive therapies, such as art and music, as valuable tools for processing difficult emotions. While grief is a challenging journey, Erin and Colleen emphasize that, with God, it can also lead to connection, healing, and resilience within families.
In this episode, we discussed:
The power of finding others who can articulate your same pain
Feelings of shame in pregnancy loss
What does Jessica's House's peer support model look like?
Their Heartstrings program for kids who have lost a sibling to miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss
All about their new book, When Grief Comes Home
Expressing grief through music, art, and movement
Helping living siblings use their imagination to “remember” without having memories of their siblings
Talking about your baby in Heaven in the present tense
Envisioning Heaven and our future reunion with them
How to survive grief “breath by breath”
Full transcript below.
MEET OUR GUESTS
Erin Nelson is the founder and executive director of Jessica's House, a grief support center for children and families. Through the tragic losses of her husband in a mid-air collision, her mother to suicide, and her son in a car accident, Erin has learned the importance of grief support for children and teens. She is an advanced certified trauma practitioner through the National Institute of Trauma and Loss in Children and has been supporting grieving families for more than 20 years.
Colleen Montague is a licensed marriage and family therapist and the program director for Jessica's House, supporting parents and their children after a death in their family.
Erin and Colleen address common challenges parents face after a significant loss and equip listeners with the tools they need to process and express their own grief as they support their child as well.
Connect with Erin and Colleen:
Facebook: /jessicashouse1225
Instagram: @jessicas_house
Website: www.jessicashouse.org
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MEET OUR HOST
Ashley Opliger is the Executive Director of Bridget's Cradles, a nonprofit organization based in Wichita, Kansas that donates cradles to over 1,500 hospitals in all 50 states and comforts over 30,000 bereaved families a year.
Ashley is married to Matt and they have three children: Bridget (in Heaven), and two sons. She is a follower of Christ who desires to share the hope of Heaven with families grieving the loss of a baby.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Episode 58 | When Grief Comes Home: Supporting a Sibling After Pregnancy Loss | Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague
Ashley Opliger: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley Opliger. I’m a wife, mom, and follower of Christ who founded Bridget’s Cradles, a nonprofit ministry in memory of my daughter, Bridget, who was stillborn at 24 weeks.
Cradled in Hope is a Gospel-focused podcast for grieving moms to find comfort, hope, and healing after the loss of a baby. We want this to be a safe place for your broken heart to land.
Here, we are going to trust God’s promise to heal our hearts, restore our joy, and use our grief for good. With faith in Jesus and eyes fixed on Heaven, we do not have to grieve without hope. We believe that Jesus cradles us in hope while He cradles our babies in Heaven.
Welcome to the Cradled in Hope Podcast.
Ashley Opliger: [00:00:49] Welcome back to another episode of Cradled in Hope. I am so honored to introduce you to the authors of a brand new book that just recently came out called When Grief Comes Home.
Erin Nelson is the founder and executive director of Jessica's House, a grief support center for children and families. Through the tragic losses of her husband in a mid-air collision, her mother to suicide, a child to stillbirth, and her son in a car accident, Erin has learned the importance of grief support for children and teens. She is an advanced certified Trauma Practitioner through the National Institute of Trauma and Loss in Children and has been supporting grieving families for more than 20 years.
Erin is joined in this episode with her colleague, Colleen Montague, who is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and the Program Director for Jessica's House, supporting parents and their children after a death in their family.
I'm so honored to have Erin and Colleen with us today. We will be covering many different topics, including the challenges parents face after significant loss and equip them with the tools they need to process and express their own grief as they support their child as well. I know you will be blessed by hearing their stories and their wisdom.
Let's dive in now.
Ashley Opliger: [00:02:04] Welcome, Colleen and Erin, to the Cradled in Hope Podcast.
Erin Nelson: [00:02:09] Thanks for having us, Ashley.
Colleen Montague: [00:02:10] Thank you.
Ashley Opliger: [00:02:12] I have been so blessed to be connected with you and to learn more about the amazing ministry, Jessica's House.
And you're going to tell us all about that here soon, but before we get into hearing about Jessica's House and your new book that's coming out, would you introduce yourselves and tell us your story?
Erin Nelson: [00:02:31] I'm Erin Nelson, and I live in the Central Valley of California with my family. I'm the Director and Founder of the ministry Jessica's House, and we support children and families in their grief.
And so after someone dies, for a child who's experienced the death of a parent or a sibling, they can come to Jessica's House and find support and healing.
Colleen Montague: [00:03:00] And I'm Colleen Montague, and I am a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and also the Program Director for Jessica's House. I started as a volunteer here in 2019 and was really lucky to get to come on staff in 2022.
Ashley Opliger: [00:03:20] It's amazing, you two just seem like such a wonderful duo of women. Together you've written a book. You're doing ministry together. I can tell that you have a close friendship in addition to your ministry partnership, and it's been a blessing for me to get to know you.
And I'll be honest, when I first read your story, Erin, on your website, my heart just sank when I read all the tragedy and trauma and grief and sadness that you've walked through in your life.
There's just something about when you read stories of people who have been through one devastating trial after another after another, and yet you are still so strong and inspiring to continue to lead this ministry and to point people to the hope of Jesus in the midst of so much personal sadness and tragedy.
And so I would love for you to share your story of everything that you've walked through in your life and how that led you to a place of wanting to minister to others.
Erin Nelson: [00:04:23] Thank you, Ashley.
You never expect to enter the grief world and you never expect to get a 3 a. m. phone call, but that's what happened to me. And I was a young mom, I was 26 years old with very young children, and I got that classic, middle-of-the-night phone call.
My husband, Tyler, was looking forward to being on a trip with his friends up in Alaska and he was fishing up there and having a really good time. We had talked on the phone and he was just having so much fun. And he was a very adventurous guy and he really loved to travel and fish and ski and do all those things.
But in the middle of the night, I received a phone call from his brother that there, on the way home from the lodge after fishing, his plane collided with another plane, and there were no survivors.
And you never expect to get a phone call like that. I had never really experienced a loss with that kind of devastation.
And I just remember really being in disbelief and having my children with me. We were actually out of town at the time. We were visiting Tyler's parents in the Monterey area, the coastal area of California.
So I remember driving home that morning. I just got the kids out of bed and we decided to come home. And I remember just driving and watching the sunrise. The Monterey area has a lot of, it's just like a farming community, and so there are these fields and the sun was coming up.
And I think that was the very first time I'd ever experienced such a deep comfort from God, just this feeling of almost being in a bubble of feeling a deep sense of peace at the same time as feeling really like, “How could this have happened?”
And so you have this sense of disbelief mixed with comfort. And so that was my first loss. And just walking through that loss and those next few days, there was just so much trauma involved in that loss. And so that was the very first loss that I faced.
And then several months later, my Mom, who had experienced and lived with a mental illness, bipolar disorder, she had cycled through depression and mania episodes really my whole life and her depression really wasn't managed well. And sadly, she had her third attempt to end her life and she died from a suicide.
And my sister was 15 at the time and so she came to live with us, the kids and I. And that was really my introduction to teens who are grieving, my sister at 15 and my five-year-old and three-year-old and myself.
And how do we go forward with so much complex trauma and how do we just breathe just through it and let God comfort us, to lean into our community and trust to get through moment by moment?
Ashley Opliger: [00:08:04] Erin, my heart just hurts. Even though that's been many years ago, I still can feel it so fresh. Thinking of you getting this phone call at three in the morning just makes my heart stop for a moment, because I myself had a 12:30 in the morning call when I found out that my Dad had been hit on his motorcycle.
And so I know for you, it's this tragic plane crash, which is just not a common situation, it's not something that many people have experienced, and you're this young mother with children that you're trying to take care of, and now your husband and the love of your life has gone on to Heaven and you're grappling with this new reality and your whole world is different.
I read on your Facebook page about the book that you just wrote, When Grief Comes Home, about how after Tyler died, you just felt so alone. And you were like, “I don't know anybody who's been through this.”
And you found a book that someone had written, and the story was very similar to yours, and how God has brought you full circle to now be writing this book that you hope one day will be that lifeline for another person who's going through it. And I think that's so beautiful.
And I know there was a lot more life in between then and writing the book, but I think the stage was being set, and God was planting those seeds in your heart to give you that hope through someone else's story at that darkest moment.
So will you share about that particular book at the time and how God started using your pain moving forward of planting the seed for this ministry?
Erin Nelson: [00:09:46] Yes, I'll never forget, Ashley, just standing in my kitchen and I was listening to, kind of like what we're doing today, to someone being interviewed. And she was telling her story about how she had written a book about her husband dying in a plane crash.
And I just had to stop because I didn't, first of all, really know any other widows that were my age. But to hear another young widow have a similar loss as mine, it just felt like there was a connection, and it was like she had the key to my heart, and nobody else had that key.
I know you experienced this with Bridget’s Cradles, as you come together with a similar story. And so really actually after this episode aired, I went to the bookstore and picked up her book. It was called Let Me Grieve But Not Forever and it was published through Focus on the Family.
And I picked it up, and I felt like I had a friend, like there was somebody next to me saying, I don't know, she was somehow articulating how I felt. And I didn't feel alone as much as I did before, and it really just meant so much to me.
And there was just something inside of me, even at that moment that just thought, “Wow, if I could just help one person, someday, I just want to help somebody else,” because I think it felt like it added some meaning, that maybe if I could help someone that there would be purpose in this tragedy. And that was really something that helped me feel better.
Ashley Opliger: [00:11:36] Amen. Erin, two things that you said: First of all, when you said that she had the key to your heart, I think there's so much power in our stories and so much power to connect with other women when we're vulnerable, and we share our hearts and share what we went through, because so often we feel so alone in grief.
And just knowing that there's someone out there that feels the way that you do and can articulate that pain, because so often it's hard to even express what we're going through, the emotions that we're going through. And then you read something and you're like, “That's it. That's exactly what I'm feeling.”
I actually just experienced that this weekend at church when we were reading a psalm. And they were David's words, but I was saying them out loud, and I was like, “I feel this in my heart right now. David's words are articulating this deep soul cry in me.” And I think that's really powerful.
And I love that God planted that seed in you in that moment, and now you're the one sharing your story and your pain and going to be helping other people.
But the second thing that you said was about how just even if you could help one person, just one person, and how finding meaning in our pain helps us make us feel like that pain is not wasted, that it's not in vain, that what we went through had a meaning and a purpose.
And it's not that we feel like God made this happen just so that we can do good things. I don't think that's the way God works, but I do believe that God can use the brokenness and the tragedies that we walk through, and bring beauty from it.
He says that in His Word, that He'll bring beauty from ashes. And so will you talk about just how he started bringing beauty from ashes in your life in those weeks and years following Tyler's loss and your Mom?
Erin Nelson: [00:13:27] Yeah. As I went on, just to tell a little bit about how things progressed in my story was that over time, as I began to heal and I met somebody from church, his name is Brian, and we're married, and we went on to have two other kids.
But I want to just talk a little bit for your listeners today, because as Brian and I were married, we were expecting our first baby, and we were just so excited about this baby because there had been this long season of loss and devastation, and this baby gave me so much hope for our future.
And I'll never forget sitting one early morning on the couch, and I remember I was journaling and I had my Bible open, and I felt our baby move for the first time. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is what I want just so much!”
So many of your listeners can relate to what happened next because I went in for a routine appointment, and we were in the doctor's office. My husband at the time was a teacher, so I was so excited that he was home on his Christmas vacation, and so he could be there. And I wanted him to hear the heartbeat because he hadn't been at our appointments.
And so the doctor was searching for the heartbeat, and he wasn't able to find it and just sent us across the hallway. And the ultrasound tech confirmed what we had feared the most, was that the baby had died, and sent us to the hospital to deliver this little tiny baby at about 22 weeks.
And I started feeling at that moment like maybe something was really wrong. I was really questioning, like, I don't know, just like, “What was actually happening with, did I do something wrong, and was there something?”
And I think as we've talked to other moms who have experienced this stillbirth, infant loss, pregnancy loss, sometimes you can feel that way, feel guilty in some way, and like you did something wrong. And so I remember feeling that sense of shame.
And as I moved through that loss and healed from that loss, and integrated in the first loss with Brian and I facing, something that I was really grateful for was that we came together around that loss, and there was something that strengthened our marriage to start our family in this way, but to know that we were there together. We had our church support. We had so much love around us, and so I was so grateful for that.
And a few months later, we got pregnant again and had this sweet boy named Carter. And he was just a delight. He brought us so much joy. And he was, I think, just everything that, I don't know, there was something about his birth and his toddlerhood especially that I remember him being just such a light in our life.
And we also welcomed another child, Camille, and I was just really grateful we went through many years of not having loss in our life. And that was such a blessing. And during that time, that was when Camille was about two years old, I started doing some work in the church to help other families.
And it just was so good to be able to come alongside families who were grieving and then learning about that it was a bigger need than I could even imagine, and to learn about the Dougy Center in Portland, Oregon, which was the very first grief center in the United States.
And we had learned about their model, and were able to bring that to the Central Valley of California and open Jessica's House, which was really amazing to offer this support to other families in grief.
Ashley Opliger: [00:17:52] That's amazing. And I can't wait to hear more about Jessica's House, but I just want to say I'm so sorry for the loss of your sweet little baby.
As you said, it was like, here you are entering into this new marriage after so much grief and this fresh start. And it's like, “Okay, I'm going into this new season, Lord,” and this sweet gift of life that you were expecting and so hopeful for. And then just to be dashed with such heartache and grief in losing this little baby. It's just so heartbreaking, especially starting out a marriage.
I know for my husband and I, we lost Bridget, she was our first. And it did strengthen our marriage, but it's also a really hard place to start your marriage off in that season. And I think so many couples, it can really break a marriage as much as it can strengthen one.
And so I'm grateful to hear that it strengthened your marriage.
But, Colleen, would you share more about what this model looks like? Like what does Jessica's House grief center look like in California and what services do you provide?
Colleen Montague: [00:18:59] What we've learned over the years is that children think they're the only ones who are experiencing this type of loss. And so a child will think he's the only one in the world whose dad has died or whose sister has died, and they don't realize that there are others around them.
And so the model that we follow is peer support. And we have a center here in the Central Valley, and so what we do is invite families in and we have groups according to the type of loss that the child has experienced.
The reality that we've learned is that one in 12 children will experience the death of a parent or a sibling by the time that they are 18 years old. And then this number more than doubles by the time they're 25.
And so children, unfortunately, are not going through this alone. There are plenty of their peers who have experienced this as well. And so when they come to Jessica's House, the group that they're attending is based on the type of loss that they've experienced.
And they're in a room with other kids around their age who are holding a similar loss. And that commonality is huge in reducing those feelings of, ‘I'm the only one’.
And the groups that we have are parent loss and sibling loss, and we have groups based off of more stigmatized type of losses such as homicide and suicide, and accidental overdose. And one group that's near and dear to our hearts, especially talking to you today, is our Heartstrings group, which is for pregnancy loss or stillbirth or infancy loss in the case of SIDS. And so that group is a really tender space with parents.
And when we first started, it just so happened that mostly only moms were coming, but it has just shifted over the years. And now we have, I would say, about equal parts moms and dads. We've got a lot of the dads coming with the moms now, which I think is so important for the strength of the mom and for the dad to grieve this loss too.
Ashley Opliger: [00:21:09] Absolutely. And I love your model of the parents coming with the children. It sounds like the house has two levels. And so on the lower level, you have the children and their classes and groups and then the parents are meeting in the upper levels. That's what you had mentioned before? Okay.
And so I love that they're both getting support and that the siblings are not left behind, because so often, I mean, at the time that I lost Bridget, I didn't have any living children, but then ended up having two boys after. And we've talked to them so much about Bridget, but so many of the women that come to our support groups, whether online or in person, they also have living children that they're taking care of as they're grieving.
And depending on the age, these children are processing, “Mommy had a belly and now she doesn't have a belly. And I thought a little brother or sister was going to come home. And my parents have been working on this nursery. And why is this nursery empty now?”
And there's a lot of hard conversations to have, especially with young children, about why this baby is no longer going to be coming home and what does it mean that they're in Heaven and so many things. And so I love that you are very intentional about grouping the kinds of loss and being specific, having a specific group for pregnancy and infant loss. That's a huge hole in our society, I believe. And it's such a blessing to hear that you have that in California.
Ashley Opliger: [00:22:36] We hope you are enjoying this episode so far. We want to take a quick break to tell you about some resources our ministry provides to grieving moms.
On our website, bridgetscradles.com, you can find hope-filled resources on grieving and healing including memorial ideas, quotes & Scripture, featured stories, and recommended books and other organizations. We share ideas on how to navigate difficult days such as due dates, Heaven Days, and holidays.
In addition, every month I lead Christ-centered support groups for bereaved moms called Hope Gatherings, both in-person and online. You can find a list of upcoming dates and sign up for our next support group on our website.
Lastly, we would love for you to connect with us on Facebook and Instagram. You can find us on these three pages: @bridgetscradles, @cradledinhope, and my personal page @ashleyopliger. You can also join our private Cradled in Hope Facebook group for grieving moms to find community. We would be honored to hear your baby’s story and be praying for you by name. Now let’s get back to our episode.
Ashley Opliger: [00:23:46] I also love that you both wrote this book, When Grief Comes Home, because, obviously, all of our listeners are all across the country and maybe even the world. And so not everyone will be able to come to your beautiful house, though I wish we all could. It sounds so wonderful.
So if you live in California, I definitely suggest you go and be there. But this book that you've written is kind of an extension of your ministry of what does this look like when grief comes home and how do we support children when they're experiencing the loss of a sibling or a parent?
And so, would you share about your heart behind the book and what it's about and how any of our listeners who have lost a baby, who have living children, how the book might support them in caring for their living children as they're grieving their sibling?
Erin Nelson: [00:24:34] Yes, Ashley, we really wanted to write a book. We call it A Gentle Companion, and we wanted to write a book for parents.
And as we know, parents can feel so alone when they're grieving, and we wanted them to feel not only supported for themselves and all that they would need after a death, but we wanted them to feel equipped in how to support their child.
And so each chapter has a little bit of my memoir and the loss that I've had, but then a lot of practical support for children and a lot of practical support for the parent. And so we're supporting that parent in ways that we take just a common concern that a parent might have in grief, and we want to speak to that.
And we're also using some examples from parents from Jessica's House, and we're able to share some of their stories and what they've gone through because everybody grieves so differently. So we wanted to make sure that each person in their own unique grief feels supported.
And so each chapter just takes a different topic. And we're talking about just those first few days after a loss. And if your spouse died, how can you support yourself and your child? If your child died, how can you support yourself and any of your other living children? And then some of those more complex losses that would be more stigmatized, as Colleen mentioned, with suicide or homicide.
And then also some ways of expression. So we talk a lot about at Jessica's House, we have all different rooms where kids can express themselves. But we know with trauma, just the way trauma affects our brain, it sometimes prevents us from telling our story in some ways.
And so we may need to find other ways to express through music and through art and all different ways that we can express, and for children through play. And so we wanted to introduce just different ways that someone might want to express their grief.
And we talk a little bit in the book about how grief, it's in our body, and sometimes it can feel like the weather in some ways, and as we have a grief storm, if you will, that's in our body, finding ways to express it and then also finding what we need in that.
And so sometimes it's like talking to a friend or going for a walk or just whatever it might be, just playing music or doing art, whatever it is that helps you feel better. It's just finding those kinds of resources and ways to heal.
Ashley Opliger: [00:27:30] I loved how before we hit record, you were telling me about all the different rooms that you have at Jessica's House. You mentioned a volcano room where children could go and express their anger, which, as you were saying that I was thinking to myself, “I need a volcano room myself as an adult,” because there is so much anger in grief.
There's so many times I just think about my Dad. I think he should be here. His death was so senseless and preventable. And there's just that anger. And sometimes you have to have a healthy way to experience, express that anger, and so I love that you shared about like painting or going on a walk or playing music.
Our listeners won't be able to see this, but I'll show you. My thing is that I bought an electric drum kit. Sounds very interesting, but I started playing the drums after my Dad died because I needed an outlet to express those grief storms when they come up in my body.
There's just something so cathartic and healing about playing the drums. And I think it's in your brain, like the left/right brain situation, when you're drumming with your left and your right hand, and all your limbs are having to move independently of each other, and there's that music component. It's been so healing for me, and it's been so unexpected.
And it's like, “Oh, I'm 37 years old, and I'm now learning to play the drums.” And I have an electric drum kit and I go jam out in my basement when my boys go to bed. That has been very healing and healthy.
And so I love that you're encouraging children and their parents to find those ways, because I think sometimes if we just let it pent up inside of us and we don't get it out, and of course, we need to be going to God's Word, and we need to be praying and all of those things. But there are times where it's like we need to go on a walk. We need to drum on something or do something because the grief has to come out.
So, Colleen, will you speak to that from a counselor's perspective? What's going on in the brain when we're overwhelmed with grief, and we need an outlet to get it out?
Colleen Montague: [00:29:37] Absolutely. I want to echo what Erin said about just how it's an energy in our body and just thinking of it like that, as opposed to something bad.
I think sometimes we think of anger as a bad emotion, but really, it's just one of all the emotions that we feel, and so noticing what it is in your body, how are you feeling, and what you need in that moment.
One thing that we know is that a storm never lasts forever. And the same is true for a feeling. When our body experiences reminders of traumatic events or surges in stress hormones, what we need to do is remember that it'll last 90 seconds.
If we're in a spot where we're feeling like we're in danger, whether that is real or perceived, our body's going to react, and it's going to give us the resources we need to stay safe. And so with those surges in hormones, that cortisol level…but sometimes we're not in danger, we're safe. And so we can weather the storm. And we talk about in our book of how to do that with weather gear. But really, those are coping skills.
Our bodies are a resource. They're designed to try and keep us safe. And sometimes, because as a parent or a child, when they've experienced the death of someone in their family, that's traumatic. And so they're living with trauma, that feeling of being unsafe or feeling powerless. And so when we have those experiences of being in a storm or being overwhelmed by our emotions, we want to know what we can do to ride out that storm.
And an internal storm, if you will, of that surge of emotions from your cortisol level spiking, those last about 90 seconds. And so if you can ride out that 90 seconds, which most of us can, those feelings don't feel good, they feel out of control or flooding or overwhelming, but if you can ride through that with 90 seconds through your own coping skills, then you can make it out to the other side. And once you've gone through it. and made it out, you can do it again.
And so I love your idea that you had to drum it out, and to learn the drums is so smart. And you're right. It's that bilateral movement you're doing. And it's such a big and fancy word for just saying you're moving both sides of your body, which, it activates both hemispheres of your brain.
And when both hemispheres, the logic and the emotional center, when they're online together, functioning as one, then you have more emotional awareness of, “How am I doing?” And then more ability to regulate it, to take care of yourself.
And so, yeah, the drum is a great idea, but if they can't have a drum set, can they create that with their child with a plastic bucket from Lowe's or Home Depot?
And that's a great thing we did this summer with the kids here at Jessica's House, is everybody got to make a little drum with duct tape, although there's so many fun colors, and upside down buckets and drumsticks.
Going for a walk, it's just probably the most underrated coping skill out there. It's amazing the power of just to walk around the block. We're not talking about even power walking, but that idea of moving both sides of your body, swaying side to side. That's a bilateral movement.
Erin has taught me about squeezing both hands, alternating them, even on the steering wheel, if you're feeling anxious while you're driving. Anything you can do to get both sides of your body moving is a way to help you ride out that internal storm that you're feeling. And those are all things that you can talk and teach your kids as well.
Ashley Opliger: [00:33:40] Absolutely, and to use for ourselves. I think with the drumming, it's kind of just an extension of EMDR in a way, because when I do EMDR therapy, there's little buzzers in both of my hands, and they buz,z and I look at them left, right, left, right. Or my counselor has had me do tapping, have both hands on my legs, and then just tap left, right, left, right. Or put your hands across your chest, like crisscross, and then just tap left, right, left, right.
And my Mom, who's also going through counseling through the loss of her husband, her counselor has her listening to bilateral music. And so it's headphones, and it's interesting because then the sounds will go from one ear to the other, which is not necessarily how you're used to listening to music.
And there's a lot of brain science behind all of this. So if you're listening to this and you're like, “Whoa, this podcast is we're recommending that you go drum and pat, pat yourself and listen to bilateral music,” there's a lot of research on the impact of bilateral movements, walking, drumming, all these things have on PTSD and helping you through that trauma and calming your amygdala down when you go into this amygdala hijack, which is what happens when you go into that fight, flight or freeze mode.
So yeah, it's not that I'm saying everybody needs to go get a drum set, that was just for me something that the Lord had for me, and I think I had always wanted to play the drums, and it felt like the right time. My Dad loved music, and so this is just something I feel like I'm doing in his memory. But I've found it incredibly therapeutic for me, it's very calming.
And so whatever it is for you, as simple as patting or listening to music, I think that can really help you in those moments where that storm just comes on. And you're just like, “This is too much. I don't even know what to do with my body right now. I'm so overwhelmed with sadness and anxiety.” So thank you for those reminders.
I love that your book is packed with super practical things that people can do themselves as they're grieving, but then also helping their children, because there's just not many resources out there for the children that are grieving, especially children that are grieving the loss of a sibling that they didn't even get to know, they didn't get the chance to have memories with. I know you spoke about that in your book. So will you elaborate on how to support a living sibling?
Colleen Montague: [00:36:02] I've got to spend a nice season of time up in the Heartstrings group with the moms and dads, and that question came up a lot, of just, they don't have those memories.
And so one of the things that we talked about was first, you can remember what it was like when your mom was pregnant. That might be the only memory that they have. And also, maybe that's memories even that the parent will share with the child of what it felt like to feel the baby moving inside. But the angle that we really take on is, what do they wish? Or what do they wonder?
And so, unfortunately, they may just not have those memories. But what do they wish they had? What were they hoping for? What do they wonder their little brother would have been like, or what their little sister would have liked to do? And so while that doesn't change the outcome, it's okay to be there for those questions.
Erin Nelson: [00:37:02] Yeah. As you're saying that, Colleen, I work with the littles in the Heartstrings group, and sometimes we have those young children who have died, and some of the group members, the kids, they do have memories of their siblings.
But if they don't, we do go into wishes and wonderings, and sometimes we'll be talking about maybe their sibling's favorite color. And then we could just ask the child, “What do you think your little sister's favorite color would have been?” And they can pick one for them.
And so sometimes it is just like making up with imagination what's really lacking in reality, and being able to have those conversations and keeping them natural, but helping them to really think about some of the memories they wish they would have had.
And if other siblings are having memories about maybe going on a vacation, we could ask that question. Where do you think that they would have wanted to go? And what do you wish they could have done with you? And they can talk about those memories that they're missing, because they don't have their sibling with them and going forward. But when/where is it that they miss them the most? And they can talk about that.
Ashley Opliger: [00:38:18] Absolutely. And I love that you're holding space for them to talk about their sibling in the present in the sense that their sibling is in Heaven and that they do have a favorite color. We just don't know what it is. And one day, we will get to know.
And I know for me with my boys, whenever we talk about Bridget, we do talk about the things that we wish we could have done with her and how sad we are that she can't be here for certain things on earth, but we always talk about her in the present as in she exists and she's alive. She's just somewhere different. She's in Heaven. She lives in a Heavenly country, and we live on earth.
And so we will say things like, “I wonder what she's doing. And I wonder what she's going to show us when we get there. Is she going to give us a tour of Heaven and her favorite spots?”
And now that my Dad's there, “What do they talk about and what stories has he told her?” And just envisioning Heaven, too, I think is a really healthy conversation because it's going into that hard space of yes, the sibling is not here, but they do exist and that they are a person. They have an eternal soul that's in Heaven. And we can talk about them in that way because we will get to see them.
And so having those conversations about, “What's it going to be like when you meet them for the first time?” That's something I think about all the time, that reunion for me with Bridget. And Erin, for you, that you have this beautiful reunion coming for you to see Tyler again, to see your mother again, see your sweet little baby that you had at 22 weeks that has an eternal soul and is in Heaven and one day you'll get to know.
And then also you'll see Carter again. Carter's your sweet boy that you were talking about that just had such a bright spirit and joy. And you knew there was something special about him from the time he was a baby and a toddler. And so would you share his story?
Erin Nelson: [00:40:14] Yes, as I mentioned, Ashley, we had just several years where we started Jessica's House and I was just so active and helping others. And I was so grateful for that.
And maybe there was a little part of me that thought, “Well, if I just keep doing this and helping other people, maybe I won't have any more losses in my life.” But one night when, just another late-night phone call, we received that Carter had been in an accident.
And so he was already 20 years old, and he was always a bright light. He was a musician. And I love that you're talking about drums because he was always playing the piano in our house. And just thinking about that bilateral, I feel like anytime he just had a little something on his mind, he would start playing the piano and always filling our house with music. And he loved singing and he loved to lead worship at our church.
But we got that late-night phone call that he had been in an accident. And so we went to the hospital, and it was really not good news, but they did think that he would make it.
But then the next day, as we were there, he had a traumatic brain injury, and throughout the course of the day, we learned that his body really was shutting down, and his injuries were just way too much.
And we surrounded him as a family, and I'll never forget just having my hand on his heart and being there when he took his last breath. And I think, as a mom, you don't really think that your heart can keep beating after your child's heart has stopped beating.
And there we go again to that place that we've been talking about, and that really is just that breath-by-breath kind of being, of just learning, like: How do you live when they're not here anymore? And how do you keep going?
And I never imagined that I would face the loss of my child, and it's been something that really, I think, deepened my desire to help others.
And as we've talked about the book, I started writing on social media, just about what does it feel like to lose a child that you cherished and was such a bright light.
Of course, we always cherish, and I think all of our kids are bright lights, but I think being able to write about what it felt like to be living without him in my daily life and grieving him and wishing he was there, and I loved being his mom. And so what did it feel like to no longer have him in my life?
And so a lot of my blogging and writing was around Carter. And that really led to that desire to write When Grief Comes Home. Because I don't think I imagined that grief would come home again. And we just really never know when it will or if it will, but all we know is that we will get through it.
We will, breath by breath, get through our worst fear. Our biggest fear, like, we can face it, and I think that is what I learned, and I was so surprised by, that we can do that, that God has given us the ability to go through that.
And I'm really grateful that I just can continue to depend on God and continue to heal and also come alongside others. Just like at the beginning, that was my desire, to help other people. And I think that continues.
Ashley Opliger: [00:44:15] Erin, speaking of a bright light, I think you are a bright light. Hearing you speak of Carter and what you went through, and having your hand on his heart as it stopped, it's unfathomable. It's completely unfathomable. And you think there's no way to survive that. Like, how do you survive that, especially after all you had been through before?
It's like the modern day Job, Erin. Your story, there's just so much grief and tragedy. And by that point in your life, it's like you were an expert on grief and you were running a grief center. And then this happened.
I don't know about you, but like for me, I was leading support groups and writing a Christian book on grief when my father was killed. And it still just takes the breath out of you, because even though you've been there before, and even though you're acquainted with grief, it's just that compounded grief of one thing after another, and you'd feel like, “I can barely get up off my knees before I'm knocked down again.”
And it feels like things just blindside you, like this is not what you would have ever expected. So, I'm so sorry for his loss. I had the honor of reading more about Carter and looking at pictures of him online. And everything that you've described about his sweet spirit, it just shines through in his pictures.
There was one photo of you and him, I think must've been at some sort of Jessica's House event, where you're just smiling and it's just so candid and beautiful. And I think about what that's going to be like when you're with him in Heaven again, and how proud he must be of everything that you do.
I'm just so sorry, Erin. I feel like I don't even have words to express my sorrow for you, but I'm so proud of you as a mom and as a follower of Christ to say, “This has been a traumatic life story that I'm walking through, but I'm not going to let the enemy take me out. I'm going to keep doing things for God's glory. I'm going to put one foot in front of the other and another, and breath by breath, God is going to lead me through this and I'm going to bring people with me.” And that's an amazing thing.
So thank you for your story, and being so vulnerable and sharing everything that you've walked through, and for being a light in this broken world and helping other people through their grief.
Erin Nelson: [00:46:41] And thank you, Ashley, for all you do, and just as a fellow sufferer who never expected to get those phone calls. And yeah, thank you for all you do with Bridget’s Cradles.
Ashley Opliger: [00:46:54] Thank you so much, Erin.
Well, I've just been so honored to have you both here. I know there's so much more that we could discuss and so much goodness that's in your book, and I'm really grateful that this resource is available wherever books are sold.
And so we'll link that in our show notes, but would you mind sharing where people can get in touch with you or learn more about Jessica's House online?
Erin Nelson: [00:47:17] Sure. Yes, you can just go to jessicashouse.org to go to Jessica's House or you could email us at info@jessicashouse.org. You can follow our author page, which is @erinleighnelson on Instagram.
And then also we have so many resources on our website to help you. We have all kinds of different resources that can help you as parents and help you as you support your children as well.
Ashley Opliger: [00:47:49] That is perfect. And we will put all of those links in our show notes.
Erin, at the end of every chapter in your book, you have a blessing that you have written for the reader. And I know you have one that you want to read for all of our grieving moms now. So, if you wouldn't mind sharing that blessing and then closing us in prayer.
Erin Nelson: [00:48:08] Yes, and this is coming from the chapter Finding Your Community, and it's called “A Blessing in What Remains.”
“In their absence, may you find presence. May your splintered heart be held. May your holes become wholeness, and your emptiness be touched by hands of love. When your days are filled with open spaces, may your longing heart be another's calling. May they find you in the dark and hold you in their care, tuck you in, and sing you to sleep. May their song be your refrain until you find your voice in what remains.”
God, we thank You for this time together and for Ashley and for the ministry of Bridget's Cradles. I just pray that You would continue to surround them as they help so many parents who are grieving. And we just thank You for this time together and may You use it for all that You have. In Your Name, Jesus. Amen.
Ashley Opliger: [00:49:11] Amen. And thank you so much, Erin and Colleen, for being here.
Erin Nelson: [00:49:15] You're welcome. Thank you for having us.
Colleen Montague: [00:49:18] Thank you so much, Ashley, and just for what you're doing in the world.
Ashley Opliger: [00:49:24] Thank you for listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. We pray that you found hope & healing in today’s episode.
Don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss new episodes when they release on the 1st of every month. You can also find this episode’s show notes and a full transcript on our website at bridgetscradles.com/podcast.
Be sure to leave your email address so that we can keep you updated on podcast episodes, upcoming support groups, and other hope-filled resources.
If you’re interested in volunteering or donating to Bridget’s Cradles in memory of a baby in Heaven, you can find information on our website on how you can get involved and spread hope to other grieving families.
One way you can help is by leaving a review of this podcast on iTunes [or the Apple Podcasts app]. Consider the minute of your time as a way YOU can personally share the hope that you’ve found here with another mom whose heart is broken and needs healing.
Thank you so much for listening and sharing. Until next time, we will be praying for you. And remember, as Jesus cradles our babies in Heaven, He cradles us in hope. Though we may grieve, we do not grieve without hope. Thank you so much for listening.
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