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In this moving episode, Ashley welcomes her friend Aubrey Pavlacka to share the story of her daughter, Timber Kai. What began as a joyful babymoon in Kauai quickly became a devastating journey through premature labor, ten days of hospitalization, and the heartbreaking loss of a much-loved baby girl at 22 weeks.

With remarkable honesty, Aubrey recounts the days she spent fighting to keep Timber alive, the faith that sustained her through unimaginable uncertainty, and the grief that followed after returning home without her daughter. Together, Ashley and Aubrey explore difficult questions about suffering, unanswered prayers, pregnancy after loss, and the tension of holding both deep sorrow and deep hope at the same time.

Throughout the conversation, they reflect on God’s faithfulness in grief, the promise of Heaven, and the ways a baby’s life can continue to impact others. This episode is a powerful reminder that while loss changes us forever, our hope in Christ remains secure.

In this episode, we discussed:

• Aubrey’s pregnancy with Timber and the unexpected complications that began during a trip to Kauai
• Giving birth to Timber at 22 weeks and the precious hours Aubrey and Justin spent with her
• Returning home after loss and navigating the early days of grief
• How Exodus 14:14 (“The Lord will fight for you; you need only be still”) became an anchor during the crisis
• Wrestling with unanswered prayers while continuing to trust God’s character
• The impact Timber’s life had on others and how God continues to use her story
• Pregnancy after loss, cervical insufficiency, and the anxiety of carrying another baby
• Honest conversations about “what ifs,” regrets, and the realities of being a grieving mother
• Raising children with an awareness of Heaven and helping siblings know and remember their sister
• How grief reshaped priorities, family life, and Aubrey’s perspective on what matters most
• Finding hope in the promise of reunion and eternity with our children in Heaven

If you are grieving a baby, struggling with unanswered questions, navigating pregnancy after loss, or longing for reassurance that your child’s life mattered, this conversation will encourage your heart. Aubrey’s story is a beautiful testimony of faith in the midst of heartbreak, reminding us that while we may not understand every part of our suffering, we can trust the God who walks with us through it—and cling to the hope that one day we will be reunited with our children in Heaven.

Full transcript below.

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MEET OUR GUEST

Aubrey Pavlacka is a wife, mother, Physician Assistant, gardener, and chicken keeper living in the mountains of Nathrop, Colorado. She and her husband, Justin, have been married since 2010 and are raising their three daughters, Rivi, Ollie Lei, and Selah. In June 2021, Aubrey gave birth to her first daughter, Timber, who passed away shortly after birth. Since then, she has learned to carry both deep grief and unexpected joy while continuing to trust God and honor Timber’s life.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Episode 70 | From Babymoon to Baby Loss: Trusting God with Timber | Aubrey Pavlacka

Ashley Opliger: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley Opliger. I’m a wife, mom, and follower of Christ who founded Bridget’s Cradles, a ministry in memory of my daughter, Bridget, who was stillborn at 24 weeks. Our nonprofit donates knit and crocheted cradles to hospitals in all fifty states to hold babies born into Heaven.

I’m also the author of the book Cradled in Hope, a biblical guide for moms grieving miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss. This podcast shares the same name—and the same heart—as the book: to help you find the comfort, compassion, and healing of Jesus in the midst of deep sorrow.

Rooted in the hope of the Gospel, this podcast is a sacred space for your broken heart to land. Here, we are going to trust God’s promise to heal our hearts, restore our joy, and use our grief for good. With faith in Jesus and eyes fixed on Heaven, we do not have to grieve without hope. We believe that Jesus cradles us in hope while He cradles our babies in Heaven. 

Welcome to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:01:03] Welcome back to another episode of Cradled in Hope. Today’s conversation is a special one because I get to introduce you to my friend, Aubrey Pavlaka. Aubrey is a wife, mother, physician assistant, gardener, and chicken keeper living in the mountains of Colorado. She and her husband, Justin, have been married since 2010 and are raising their three daughters on a beautiful piece of land they call home.

[00:01:24] But before becoming the mother of those three precious girls, Aubrey became the mother of Timber. In June of 2021, Aubrey gave birth to her first daughter, Timber Kai, who passed away shortly after birth. In the years since, Aubrey has learned what it means to carry both profound grief and profound gratitude, honoring Timber’s life while welcoming three more daughters into her family.

[00:01:45] Aubrey has been a dear friend of mine for several years. We first connected shortly after Timber’s death, and I have had the privilege of watching her walk this journey of loss with incredible honesty, faith, and courage. In today’s episode, she shares Timber’s story, her experience navigating pregnancy after loss, the questions and struggles that followed, and the hope she has found in Christ through it all.

[00:02:07] I know her story is going to encourage so many of you, so let’s welcome my friend, Aubrey Pavlaka.

Ashley Opliger: [00:02:15] Welcome, Aubrey, to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. 

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:02:15] Thank you so much.

Ashley Opliger: [00:02:20] I’m so glad you’re here. I’ve wanted you to be on for a long time, and I know it’s been a whirlwind of the past couple of years, but I’m so grateful that we could connect and be able to share your story.

Aubrey Pavlacka:[00:02:33] Yeah. Thank you truly for pursuing this conversation. It is something that I have wanted to do for so long.

[00:02:40] When I think about it, I don’t know that I even could have done it maybe, even that first year, because here I am coming up to year five, and it’s still going to be so hard to do today. But I’m so grateful to be able to do it with you.

Ashley Opliger: [00:02:51] Yeah. Just like you said before, it was God-ordained right before Timber’s fifth Heavenly birthday, and God knew that this was the right time for you to share your heart and your testimony, so He knows best when it’s supposed to work out.

[00:03:04] But would you share who you are with our audience, and then also if you want to weave in how we know each other and your connection to Bridget’s Cradles?

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:03:13] I’m Aubrey. I’m married to Justin. He was my high school sweetheart. We got married quite a few years later, though, just because I went on and became a PA in school.

[00:03:23] And so we got married in 2010. We got pregnant right after with our first kid, which will lead into our story. But we live in Colorado. We have Timber in Heaven, and then three precious girls on earth with us. We live on a little bit of land. We have a lot of chickens and a dog and beautiful mountain views everywhere around, and I work at the hospital, and my husband’s a small business owner as an electrician.

[00:03:48] And we’re from Wichita, Kansas, him and I both, and so that’s how you and I are connected. I met you through a pastor who goes to my mom’s church that you also are close with. And so you and I started talking very shortly after I returned home from losing Timber, and then continued to talk. So that was in June all the way through until October, and that’s when I met you in person, was at Wave of Light.

[00:04:13] So I live in Colorado, but I went home to Wichita, and went to the Wave of Light event, and Timber had her own lights there, and we had all of our family come. And yeah, that’s when I got to hug you for the first time. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:04:23] I know. 

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:04:23] And then we’ve stayed friends since, and seen each other quite a few times since.

Ashley Opliger: [00:04:27] Aubrey, I’ve been so blessed by your friendship, and I am going to share more about how you’ve been just such a generous and beautiful friend to me. But I would love for you to share Timber’s story with us.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:04:38] Justin and I got married in August, and then we wanted to start trying to have a baby shortly after the first of that year.

[00:04:45] We got pregnant with Timber, gosh, I mean, I feel like right away. And it was a perfect pregnancy. I was super nauseous, which was comforting to know the baby’s growing. I was throwing up all the time, but I was like, “No, this is great.” And baby was growing well. I had worked with a midwife in the area, and at that point, we were actually living in an RV, and I was going to do a home birth in an RV.

[00:05:09] And so we were excited, and everything was going good. I made it to my 20-week anatomy scan. It was a perfect bill of health. She was growing. Everything was perfect. And so then, about a week after my anatomy scan, I was going to Kauai with my best friend Dung, my husband Justin, and then Dung’s boyfriend at the time, Jared. And we were going out there to do a couple things. 

[00:05:34] Justin and I were celebrating our babymoon. Dung and I have been best friends since college. We were celebrating our 30th birthdays that were going to be in November, but we wanted to go early since I was due with the baby in October. And then Jared actually was going to surprise Dung and propose to her on the trip, which he did end up doing.

[00:05:51] And so, the first few days of the trip were beautiful. We were hiking, I actually came across a sign that was Timber’s name while I was there. Her name is Timber Kai, and it was K-A-I. It was a sign, and I took a photo in front of it. Everything was great. I went on a hike with Dung one morning. After the hike, I went to the bathroom, and I noticed something off, and turns out it was my mucus plug, and I didn’t know what it was.

[00:06:14] I reached out to my midwife, and she didn’t really ask that many questions. She was just like, “Hey, this is no big deal. This happens to moms all the time. It will regenerate, and you’re fine.” I had reached out to my own mother, who is also a midwife in Kansas, and my mom was a little bit more concerned. 

[00:06:30] But this day was such a big day. It was the day Jared was proposing to Dung, and I was the photographer, going to take photos of this, and I just felt like I didn’t need to make anything about myself, and I was like, “Surely this is okay. I’m over 20 weeks. This is a perfect pregnancy. Surely everything’s fine.” So I went on with the day, and was able to get to close to sunset, took photos of the engagement.

[00:06:58] Dung said yes. They went off to dinner. Justin and I went back to the Airbnb, and that’s when I started noticing blood and fluid, and that’s when I knew something was very wrong. At that moment, we called my mom. My mom was like, “You do need to go to the hospital right away.” 

So we got in the car, and we drove, and in Kauai, it’s just a small island, and you’ve got one road going every way, and so it was like an hour-and-a-half drive to the hospital, and I had contractions the entire time.

[00:07:23] And I just was crying out to God that whatever was happening, just let it not be a big deal. When I get to the hospital, let them just be able to resolve this. 

And so I get to the hospital. They immediately take me up to the L&D unit, and I have a doctor that comes in, and she wants to check the fluid that’s coming out of me, and also do a speculum exam.

[00:07:44] And so she did, and at that moment, she told me that I was five centimeters dilated, and that it was amniotic fluid leaking out of me, and Justin and I truly just started screaming. I was in such denial that anything could have been wrong in that moment. And knowing that I was in labor in truly a very rural island was just horrifying.

[00:08:10] I think from there we just really quickly made a phone call to our parents and just asked for prayer, and I feel like the whole hospital could have heard our sobs. I mean, we were just beyond heartbroken, and that was Day 1 of what ended up being a 10-day stay in the hospital. 

[00:08:29] They thought the baby was going to come right away. They were very nonchalant about her. They were like, “She is going to come out. She will not be alive. Her skin is going to fall off of her.” They really wouldn’t even call her a baby. The doctor kept calling her ‘my pregnancy components’; that’s what she kept doing. And so all of that was super hard. 

[00:08:47] So going into day two, basically I’d gotten to a place where my contractions had slowed. I hadn’t been given anything to try to stop that, because I feel like they didn’t think it was necessary. I mean, it was definitely rural medicine that I was working with. It didn’t feel like very sophisticated medicine where they were really trying to do everything they could to save Timber’s life. There was zero talk about a cerclage or anything that could’ve been a life-saving measure. 

[00:09:11] So going into day two, at that moment I had decided, “I’m going to lay in this bed. I’m not going to move a muscle, and I’m going to just keep this baby inside of me until she’s big enough to have something happen.”

[00:09:24] And so I had opted to have my bed go into Trendelenburg position, which is when your head is lower and your feet are higher, because I just was like, gravity, maybe, something. And that’s what happened for days and days. It was a huge rollercoaster. 

[00:09:37] I wrote a blog shortly after I lost Timber that really goes through day by day what I endured, from just my body truly feeling like it was breaking, because I was going in and out of labor, having contractions, and I was laying in a bed as stiff as I could. crossing my ankles, fighting with everything in me the contraction, which is just a very unnatural thing to do. 

So from that to just physically not moving, to being in a position where your feet are higher than your head, and I already am just a pretty hypotensive person. My blood pressure’s just always real low, so that was just headaches all the time. 

[00:10:16] But yeah, so we were doing that. I eventually did get a kind doctor who really started talking to me about options, and he was like, “If we can get you to a place where Timber is 22 weeks, we’re going to fly you to Oahu, which actually has a NICU, and potentially life-saving procedures can be done for her.”

[00:10:34] And so that was my goal. At that moment, I had my eyes set on 22 weeks. And throughout those days, again, I have a blog there. If someone is ever going through a similar situation like this and really wants to hear what experience, maybe we can link that or something like that, and people can read that. But it was just in and out of contractions, blood, fluid loss, Timber being shown on ultrasound maybe starting to come down further and further through the cervix.

[00:11:00] But other beautiful things happened, too. In the hospital was when I felt a kick for the first time. I never had experienced that. Now being a mom a few more times, I’ve had kicks at 16 weeks, but my first baby, I didn’t feel the kicks yet. So there was beautiful things that God was doing that was encouraging to me throughout the way, people reaching out. I did end up telling the world her name while I was in the hospital so people could pray for her by name.

[00:11:24] But yeah, so then the night before 22 weeks, everything was going as good as it could. The next day was when I was going to be 22 and be able to get on a little helicopter and fly over to Oahu. And my mom was flying in that day as well, from Wichita to Kauai, to be with us.

[00:11:41] And so I made it to 22 weeks that morning, and I was so grateful. And then I started feeling like I was coming down with an infection, which was one of the biggest things the doctors were stressed about the whole time I was in the hospital, was because I was dilated. Most people know this. If your waters break, right, they want that baby to deliver within 24 hours or infection risk.

[00:12:01] Well, my waters were broken, and I was dilated, and so they kept being concerned that I was going to get an infection, something could happen to me. So that next morning, I felt like I was getting an infection. I couldn’t tell if it was a UTI or what was going on, but I was like, “Something is maybe happening.”

[00:12:18] And then as I’m trying to talk through Justin through that, I just started feeling a lot of pain, burning, things like that. And at that moment, that’s when a prolapsed umbilical cord coming out, and then I was in labor. And there was going to be no flying me to Oahu. 

[00:12:35] So I gave birth to Timber. She came out, and she cried and cried. And we got to hold her, and she laid on our chests, and we got to wrap her in a blanket. And she was great color; she would grab our fingers. She was all these things that they had said she wasn’t going to be. She was. And she was doing so good for so long, like over an hour, all this, just like a vigorous baby.

[00:13:03] And here she is, she hadn’t even gotten steroids or anything to support her lungs or anything. And I started thinking to myself, “Can we just get her to Oahu?” Like, “Leave me here and get her there. Can someone get this baby to a NICU? Because maybe my baby’s older than 22 weeks, and maybe she can live.” 

And they took her from me at that point and took her to, it wasn’t a NICU, but she went with Justin to some place in this hospital where they were going to try to stabilize her for a little bit and see if they could get her.

[00:13:34] And it just, I don’t know, they didn’t feel like they could, all these things. I ended up advocating for her to come back to me because I didn’t know where my baby was, and I was by myself. So Timber did, and we just laid there with her. And I remember just watching her just do all the things, have skin-to-skin with Daddy, hold his finger.

[00:13:55] I remember her sucking her thumb, which was just crazy to see a 22-weeker put her tiny thumb in her mouth. But also so sweet, because I was a thumb sucker, so I just felt like, “Of course, you’re my baby.” And we called a few people, not very many, but FaceTimed just a couple people for a few minutes so they could see.

[00:14:14] And that evening, my mom got in from her flight to Kauai, and after being there for about two or three minutes, that’s when Timber took her last breath and passed away. So my mom did get to be there for that. 

[00:14:28] And then after she passed, we took photos. We took photos when she was alive, of course, but we took some photos with her. They gave us a cooling bed. She got to sleep near us that night. It was just sweet things like that. 

[00:14:53] We knew that having Timber in Kauai, we couldn’t just leave her there. So then we had to go through the process of getting her cremated, and just documentation stuff so then we could fly home with her back to Colorado to be able to have a funeral, have a burial. So yeah, that’s what happened with Timber.

Ashley Opliger: [00:14:56] My goodness, Aubrey. I am so, so sorry. I remember reading all of your blogs, and we will link those so that people can read your whole story and the day-by-day that you shared on there. And I remember the sweet pictures of you and Justin holding her. I just want you to know, mom to mom, when I hear your story, I just see the resilience and the unconditional love of a mom.

[00:15:21] And I hope you know this, and I think you do, but you did everything you possibly could have done for her. I mean, to lay in a bed backwards, basically, with your head down, and to just be fighting those contractions and advocating for her and doing literally everything that you could possibly do, I just want you to know that you’re an amazing mom and that you did everything that you could have done.

[00:15:45] And that’s something that I feel very passionate about saying to all of the moms listening, because so many times in our support groups, we’ll have moms say, “I wish I would have done this differently,” or, “I shouldn’t have…” There’s all these what-ifs. 

[00:15:59] And the thing that I always tell people is that if you could have saved your baby, you would have. You absolutely would have, but you couldn’t, and you did everything you possibly could have done. 

We are not God. We cannot do all the things and know all the things. There are things outside of our control, which is the hard part about being a human, and especially being a mom, because we have that innate desire and instinct inside of us to try to protect our babies.

[00:16:29] And I just hope you know that you did everything inside of you for her, and that she is so blessed to have you as a mom.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:16:36] Thank you. I appreciate you saying that.

Ashley Opliger: [00:16:39] So you get back to Colorado from your babymoon without your baby, and as you said, so sad to think that you had to come back with your baby cremated and have to fill out paperwork. I mean, such a nightmare, and so, so sad, and I’m so sorry that you had to walk through that. 

[00:16:57] So you get back home, and your life is just turned upside down, and you’re devastated. What were those first weeks and months like, especially in your faith journey? Because you had been walking with Jesus before, and you had prayed to Him and been asking for this miracle, and had all these people reading your blog and praying, and then the prayers didn’t seem like they were being answered the way that we wanted them and the way that you wanted them.

[00:17:21] So would you just share what that looked like in your faith journey as you got back home?

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:17:27] Yeah. Isn’t that the truth? It felt like once Timber’s story got out there, I had people around the world that were reaching out to me, and it was like, “Man, people are praying from everywhere! God, where are You when this many people are crying out for You for this precious little baby? In a world that we live in that sometimes really doesn’t value the life of a baby, where are You, God?”

[00:17:43] So that was hard. I mean, my faith has been with me my whole life. I really don’t remember a day I’ve ever walked without knowing who Jesus is. Whether I was living in my best ways of serving Him or not, I’ve always known the truth. And I felt God with me so much in that hospital.

[00:18:09] I mean, there was a moment where, something I do want to share is just, the verse that kept me going is Exodus 14:14, “The Lord will fight for you. You just need to be still.” And I remember saying that to me over and over again. “If I can be still, I can hold this baby, and the Lord is going to fight for me. I don’t have to do all of this. The Lord will fight for me.”

[00:18:26] And I just remember feeling like I was an Israelite. That’s where that verse comes from, is He’s talking to the Israelites. And I just remember feeling like, “God, fight for me. Fight for me in a way in this world that feels like everything is up against me. Fight for me.”

And so yeah, coming home to Colorado without Timber, I don’t think I had any other option than to even further lean into my relationship with Christ, because anything else felt way harder.

[00:18:53] Even being a part of support groups, I remember in those beginning days, sometimes I did have folks that would reach out to me that maybe had something similar happen to them or relatable happen to them, and they weren’t walking with Jesus.

[00:19:04] And I remember those relationships was something that I didn’t feel like I could pursue at that time, because my hope was so anchored in Christ and in Heaven, and my eyes were so focused on Heaven that I couldn’t let my mind go anywhere else, because that meant that I was never going to see Timber again. 

[00:19:22] I knew that Timber was in Heaven, and I knew that my faith in Christ needed to remain rock solid, and I needed to continue to pursue Christ, because I want to be in Heaven with Timber one day.

Ashley Opliger: [00:19:33] Amen. And I love how you said all the other options felt harder. Because it is interesting, I feel like there are people who will say, “How could you believe in a good God that allows babies to die?” Or, “How could you still have faith when this has happened in your life?” 

And the thing that I always come back to is, “Well, where else am I going to run? To who else am I going to run? There’s nothing else in this world that will comfort me, nothing else in this world that can satisfy me. There’s no other truth. There’s no other man, other than Jesus, that promises us eternity in Heaven. There’s no other way.” 

[00:20:10] And so yes, it is hard to be a Christian in a fallen world where broken things happen in broken bodies. And yes, sometimes it is hard to reconcile those questions of, “Where are You, God, and why did You let this happen?”

But what is the alternative? To assume that there is no God or that He is not a good God? And what theological things does that lead you down? And so when you come back to that solid rock of Christ and the firm foundation of His Word, that’s where everything can be built from, because any other ground is sinking ground. I love that hymn.

[00:20:47] But I keep thinking, to me, I’m like, “Well, what other hope do I have? Where else am I going to run? What other option do I have? There is no other hope but Jesus, and He is a good God who loves us, and He does walk through trials with us.”

[00:21:00] And so let’s go back to your Exodus quote, because in your mind, you’re thinking, “I’m laying here. I’m trying to be still. I need You to fight for me.” 

And from the outside, if we’re playing devil’s advocate, and for an unbeliever who’s looking at this situation, they might think, “Well, where was your God? He wasn’t fighting for you,” because of the outcome. But we know, as Christians, He was there in that hospital room, and He is holding Timber now, and He was fighting for you.

[00:21:30] So would you just share how you were able to see that His promises were still there and He was still fighting for you in the midst of your grief?

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:21:38] Yeah. I think my mind is so little, and the vastness of who Christ really is, it’s impossible for me to really know all the things that He’s working together for our good, my good, right, in situations like this.

[00:21:55] But I remember, I mean, there was a couple different things. Months and months after I returned from Kauai, I was getting my hair done one time, and it was a link with, “Hey- I’m a hairdresser, but I’m friends with a nurse that was in Kauai that was there in that hospital. And every day, that hospital, all of those nurses were talking about how they would walk past your room and hear the worship music and see the Bible verses written on your walls, and how that situation was softening hearts of people towards Christ.”

[00:22:24] So I remember thinking things like that, where, what all did this situation, Timber’s life, how many people saw something that then opened up their own eyes to maybe welcoming a relationship with Christ? I feel like that’s where I have to go to sometimes, because I think it would be hard for me to say, “How did God fight for me?”

[00:22:44] I don’t feel like He did. I lost my baby. I know that God is good, though, and I know that He is not the author of my pain. We live in a broken world, period. He never intended for any of us to live in pain. He never intended for any of this to happen, but we live in a fallen world, so things are going to happen. But God will work all things together for my good. I do know that. I do believe that deeply. 

[00:23:08] I think my bigger blown-out picture has to be that Timber’s life impacted a lot of people in a way that has furthered the Kingdom of Heaven, and I do believe that. I believe that people have been brought to Christ over this sweet baby’s life, and I think that’s something that grounds me throughout the situation, and I would do it again.

[00:23:33] I mean, I remember how sick I was with Timber. I’ve been sick with every single pregnancy. It’s actually a really hard thing for me. I have good aspects of pregnancy, but I have really tough nausea and vomiting, and I just remember calling my mom at one point. I was like, “Mom, I went 16, 17 weeks of being so sick, throwing up all the time, for a baby that I didn’t even get to snuggle and keep.”

[00:23:53] And I know that might sound selfish saying that, but maybe another mom out there gets it, because she’s like, “Yeah,” like it’s just one of those things where it’s like, “Man, I went through so much, and I didn’t even get to have my baby.” 

And then I have to flip my mind sometimes and remember: If Timber did introduce some people to Jesus, I do get to have my baby. I’ll get to have my baby for eternity in Heaven. And thank You, Jesus, that You used her little life to further Your Kingdom to people that maybe weren’t going to be open to a relationship with You.

Ashley Opliger: [00:24:23] Absolutely. Her life has and still does and will continue to shine a light for Jesus, and I know this podcast coming out after her fifth Heavenly birthday is going to continue on.

[00:24:37] I’ve told you before, these episodes are listened to not just when they release, but weeks, months, years later. So I know that even moms listening to you sharing your testimony and hearing Timber’s life story are going to be impacted for Jesus. 

And I know, as your friend, how much Timber’s life has changed yours and your heart and your life story and your little family. And I just believe with all my heart that those 16 to 18 weeks that you were vomiting and going through all of those symptoms, they were worth it because of her life and the impact she made on you and so many others, but also, and you alluded to this, that you will have her for eternity. 

[00:25:15] Yes, you didn’t get to keep her on this earth, but you have a daughter waiting for you in Heaven that you will spend thousands and thousands and thousands of years with. 

[00:25:29] And that’s something I have to remind myself over and over, is the 24 weeks that I carried Bridget, those were not wasted weeks. Those were weeks that God was knitting her and creating her, not just her little body, but her soul is the part of us that lives forever. And one day we’ll all have glorified immortal bodies. And to think that all of that was worth it because she’s going to have that glorified immortal body at the Resurrection, and her soul lives on forever in Heaven. And there’s nothing better that we could ever want than that.

[00:26:01] And yes, the time right now of missing them and wishing that they could be here in our family and getting to raise them, that’s the part that’s so hard, is that we wanted them to be here now, and there’s that ache. But those weeks were so worth it. 

Every mom that’s listening, whether you carried your baby for five weeks or 15 weeks, for full term, those weeks were worth it because you will have an eternity with your baby in Heaven if you believe in Jesus Christ.

[00:26:28] And so thank you for that reminder, Aubrey. And I know that Timber’s life has such a grand purpose because that’s what God does, is He redeems what the enemy meant for evil, for good. 

And you’re right, God did not intend for death. He did not intend for us, for babies to die, let alone for anyone to die. He wanted us to live forever with Him, and He has a plan to redeem all of that, for us to live forever with Him on the New Earth.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:26:52] Yeah, so exactly like what you’re saying, what the enemy meant for evil, God will use for good. I mean, I remember right after I lost Timber, too, there was just a lot of worldly things that were said to me that definitely didn’t feel right in my spirit, and they hurt. Like, “Everything happens for a reason.”

[00:27:07] Well, I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that everything happens for a reason. I do believe, though, that God will use everything for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Or, “Heaven just needed another angel.” I also don’t believe that. Or even after I got pregnant the next time, “Here’s your new daughter that was handpicked by her sister in Heaven.”

[00:27:27] And I’m like, none of these things, even though people say them with the intent of trying to be kind, and I never get upset with the person, it’s just worldlyisms that don’t ground me in the truth of what the Bible says about where my baby is, how any of the babies I’m currently pregnant with, or whatever it may be at that moment.

[00:27:47] Yeah, those were things that were just hard for me to navigate, that I had never been sensitive to before going through something like this. And man, are your eyes just opened in such a different way. I mean, even just hearing people call it a miscarriage or something like that. And I’m not at all to say that a miscarriage is not hurtful, because of course it is so hurtful and so painful.

[00:28:06] But that wasn’t what I walked through. What I walked through was just something different. I felt like so many times the world didn’t really understand or take the life of Timber seriously sometimes.

Ashley Opliger: [00:28:18] Yeah, minimizing and not really validating what you walked through in her life, and I definitely think we see that in the world that we live in.

[00:28:26] Coming back to the nurses calling Timber a product of pregnancy, yeah. I mean, as Christians believe in the sanctity of human life, that is not the way we talk about a child. I don’t even like the term fetus. I don’t like those medical terms, because it’s a baby. It’s a child, no matter how many weeks they are.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:28:45] Yeah. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:28:45] And so, sorry that you walked through that. And yes, those statements where people are inadvertently making a theological statement, “Heaven needed another angel.” Well, we don’t believe that our babies are angels, and that’s a good thing because they’ll take part in the Resurrection with a glorified body.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:29:01] Right. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:28:02] And those are the things that it’s like, “Okay, thank you for saying that. I know you have a good intention, but theologically I don’t believe in what you’re saying. And in fact, it’s better that my baby is a human that God created that will take part in the Resurrection, and not an angel. We don’t turn into angels when we go to Heaven. None of us humans do.” 

[00:29:21] Angels are very distinct created beings, and we have a whole podcast episode where we dive into this, and I’ll link it right here so that if you want to go listen to more of that. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:29:33] We hope you’re finding encouragement in this episode so far. We want to take a moment to share some resources our ministry offers to support grieving moms like you.

On our website, bridgetscradles.com, you’ll learn more about our nonprofit and find many hope-filled resources, including free e-books to help you plan a memorial or funeral service for your baby, meaningful ways to honor your baby in your heart and home, and gentle guidance for navigating difficult days like due dates, Heaven Days, and holidays.

We invite you to join our community of grieving moms through our Christ-centered support groups, offered both in-person at our headquarters near Wichita, Kansas, and virtually through Hope Online. These gatherings provide a place to find comfort, connection, and biblical hope alongside other moms who understand your pain.

You can view upcoming dates and sign up on our website. While you’re there, we’d also be honored for you to share your baby’s story with us.

For ongoing support, we welcome you to join our private Cradled in Hope Facebook group—a safe space for grieving moms to find friendship and walk their healing journey together.

To stay connected with us and receive faith-filled encouragement, follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @bridgetscradles, @cradledinhope, and my personal page @ashleyopliger. 

Now, let’s get back to the episode.

Ashley Opliger: [00:30:53] I would love to hear, Aubrey, your journey in pregnancy after loss. You’ve since had three daughters that are living, beautiful little girls, healthy. And I know that there was a lot of anxiety in pregnancy afterwards, as I experienced and so many other women experience in being pregnant again after you’ve lost a child. And so would you walk us through what that was like for you bringing new life into the world?

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:31:20] Losing Timber in Kauai, one of the odd things about that is nobody knew why at that moment. And because I only had a midwife back in Colorado, I had these doctors in Hawaii, there was a disconnect. When I flew home with Timber, it was like I got here and nobody took accountability for Aubrey as a patient. “Here, let’s figure out what’s wrong with you and how this happened.”

[00:31:43] So I say that because that led into a lot of the anxiety of going into a next pregnancy, because it was like, “What in the world happened and why?” And I am thankful for my medical background, that I was actually able to diagnose myself before getting pregnant with Rivi.

[00:31:57] I delivered Timber on June 8th, and in those months between then and mid-August, so just two months or so, I was very sure that I had cervical insufficiency, and that was the reason why I gave birth to Timber. 

One other thing I just want to add, just because if this resonates with anyone else out there, is one of the really hard things about losing Timber is knowing that she was a perfectly healthy baby, and my body failed her.

[00:32:26] That’s something I struggle with a lot, because there’s no difference between Timber and Rivi and Ollie Lei and Selah. There was no difference. She was completely healthy, where I feel like sometimes in my mind, if I knew there was maybe something where genetically it was incompatible with life or something like that, I could wrap my head a little bit more around understanding that she was going to be in Heaven, and I wasn’t.

[00:32:50] Not that it wouldn’t hurt my grief, but I could understand that, going through the thought that we talked about at the beginning of the podcast, but had I not been in Hawaii, or had I been in Hawaii but at Oahu and not Kauai, had I been in a place where there was a NICU or a doctor that understood what cerclages were or anything like that, how different the situation would be. That’s something that five years later I struggle with immensely. 

[00:33:13] I knew in myself, and I’m just going to be very raw and honest right here, I wanted to be pregnant immediately after I gave birth to Timber. I felt so empty inside. Physically in my belly, I felt empty, like I needed a baby in my womb, and I remember telling that to my husband.

[00:33:30] And my husband was like, “What? We just went through this.” 

And I was like, “I can’t tell you how badly I want to be a mom, and I am a mom, but I want my baby. I want a baby.” And so I definitely struggled with that a lot, and there was a part of me that was like, “If I can be pregnant before Timber’s due date,” which was October 16th, then in my head I would think, “Okay, well, I couldn’t have had this baby and Timber,” so this makes sense in my head that this is part of the plan.

[00:33:58] And this is just me humanly talking, right? I’m not saying that this is anything beautiful or Christ-like or anything like that. This is just where my mind was at that time. Had diagnosed myself with cervical insufficiency, we did get pregnant in mid-August, and in September, that’s when we told some people. 

[00:34:16] And then going into November, I flew home to Kansas; because my mom’s a midwife there, there was an MFM in Kansas that was willing to take my diagnosis because he trusted my mom a lot, and he felt like I was a reliable source to talk to. And I said, “I think I have cervical insufficiency. You just have to take my word for it. Will you give me a cerclage?”

[00:34:40] And he agreed to it. And so then when I got that cerclage in my pregnancy with Rivi, my second, at 12 weeks, I definitely had anxiety going throughout that pregnancy of just what could happen, but I also had that assurance of, “My cervix is sewn shut. It’s not just going to randomly open. I would at least have some sort of preface of it opening, whether it was pain or bleeding or something like that, before baby was maybe in a dire situation.”

[00:35:06] I would say that until I got through to week 28, which is more that viability standpoint, there was a lot of anxiousness. There were a lot of things I didn’t do. I’ve spent my whole life working out, and I didn’t feel like I could work out or do a lot of things, just out of fear, and I think that was very normal.

[00:35:23] I definitely trusted God, but there was a part of me that wondered, even though I felt in my heart my whole life I would be a mom, and I would be a mom to many, I’ve always felt that maybe that was just me making that up in my head, and that wasn’t really what God’s plan was for mine and Justin’s life.

[00:35:39] And so there was anxiety. And then at 37 weeks, I had my cerclage removed, and right after I got that cerclage removed, I went into labor with Rivi. And so that was so validating for me to know that was my diagnosis. That cerclage is a life-saving measure that has allowed me to bring more children into this earth. Praise God.

Ashley Opliger: [00:36:05] Wow. 

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:36:05] So praise. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:36:06] Yeah, and praise God, too, for your medical background and your ability to diagnose and make those decisions, and for that doctor to be willing to do the cerclage because you did know. You knew your body and what you needed, and that cerclage is exactly what you needed to bring Rivi and your other daughters into this world. 

[00:36:30] And I think that- I don’t know if you feel this way, but this is how I felt about Bridget. After Bridget was born, I found out about my PCOS and low progesterone, and so with my two boys that are living, I was on progesterone and had the progesterone suppositories, the shots, and was able to carry both of them to term. 

And on one hand, I think to myself, “Bridget’s life and death allowed me to have that knowledge to change things that allowed her brothers to live, which is amazing and a miracle.”

[00:37:09] But on the other side, there’s this part of me that’s like, “If only I would’ve known to take progesterone with Bridget.” And I’m sure you think the same thing. But what I have to come back to and tell myself is, “How would I have known, as a first-time mom in a first-time pregnancy, to take progesterone? That is not something you do on a normal first-time pregnancy.

[00:37:31] Likewise, normal first-time pregnancy, you’re not going to get a cerclage put in. You would not know that. You only know that because of Timber, and I only know what I know about my body and progesterone because of Bridget. 

And so I write about this in my book, about how I feel like her life saved her brothers’ lives. And it makes me grateful but also sad because, again, I look back and I think, “If only I would’ve known. She could’ve been here if I would’ve just been on progesterone.”

[00:38:01] And I don’t know that with certainty anyway. Who am I to say that that would have? But we go through these things, and just like you said, this is not us saying this is a Christ-like way to think, but this is reality. We are humans. 

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:38:15] Totally. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:38:16] We think through these things. We are mothers. We are going to analyze and think through all of the different aspects of it.

[00:38:24] And so the reason I’m sharing this part of it and the reason you’re sharing it is because we need to humanize this. 

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:38:31] Yeah. 

Ashley Opliger: [00:38:31] We can’t say even though we’re Christians, we’re just high and mighty, and we don’t have these thoughts, and we don’t have what-ifs, and we don’t- 

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:38:37] Yeah.

Ashley Opliger: [00:38:38] … struggle with these things, with questions and doubts and fears. That’s a part of the process, and so I really appreciate, Aubrey, all the things that you hesitated to say, “Should I say it or should I not?” Yes, we’re feeling that.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:38:51] Totally. I wish I had felt like I had more things I could’ve listened to at that time. I remember I had gender disappointment with my second because in my head, I had gotten pregnant so quickly, and then here was my second baby coming, and in my head, it was certainly going to be a son because that’s actually what God’s plan was for my life, was not for my firstborn …

[00:39:12] Well, she was still going to, always would be my firstborn, but it was for my oldest child on earth to be a boy, and then I remember it was a girl. And then I was quickly like, “Everyone’s going to confuse these two babies. There’s going to be Timber and Rivi, and no one’s going to remember Timber anymore because they’re both girls, and they were conceived so quickly.”

[00:39:29] I mean, there’s just so many human thoughts like that were so hard for me to navigate. And now I obviously can’t even imagine my life without Rivi and Ollie Lei and Selah. And they talk about their big sister, Timber. Every single day we talk about Timber, and it is beautiful. 

[00:39:47] I mean, when I see pink clouds in the sky, I can’t help but just think of Timber. And I’m not saying that it’s a sign from God and God’s showing me in that moment. I mean, there was pink clouds in the sky all the time before I lost Timber. But now when I see them, I just see my baby, and I see my girl in Heaven. I see her with Jesus. I just picture this. 

There’s just so many beautiful things in this world that just make me feel so close to Heaven when I see them, and so close to feeling like how I’m going to feel like on that first reunion day with her, which is beautiful.

Ashley Opliger: [00:40:21] It’s so beautiful to think about, and I love that your daughters on earth talk about sissy in Heaven. And that is part of their testimony and their story too. They are going to be raised to know of their sister. They’re going to know about the hope of Heaven and about Jesus.

[00:40:42] And I don’t know about you, but I think you would agree with me. In our family, I feel like Heaven is so much more real because Bridget’s there. A part of our family and our heart is there. 

And for my boys, I feel like, because it’s not a normal part of childhood to be going to a cemetery all the time like my boys do, but in an odd way, it’s been normalized, and we always talk about the fact that one day this grave is going to be empty. And whether your baby was buried or cremated, either way, they’re going to be resurrected.

[00:41:13] And so when you’re having these conversations with children at the appropriate level as they’re growing up, and learning about Heaven and death and what does that mean, and all of these questions that children have, it is this opportunity for us to preach the Gospel in a very real and tangible way, because a member of our family is there, and our family will not be complete until we all get there.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:41:36] Wow. So true.

Ashley Opliger: [00:41:38] I love the pink clouds too. That’s so beautiful, especially where you live. You guys have to go look at her Instagram channel, because her house and the views from her home are absolutely beautiful. 

[00:41:49] I just wanted to share this part of it because after I lost my dad, I was struggling in deep grief, and in many ways still am a year and a half later. But in that first year, I was really having a hard time leading a ministry and walking through grief. And I had reached out to you and just said, “I’m really struggling. I feel like I need some time alone with God, a sabbatical.” 

[00:42:15] And this wasn’t my formal two-month sabbatical that I did this year, but you offered for me to come to your house, and I got to be there with your family and your sweet dog, Joey, who is a loyal companion, and just get to breathe in the mountain air and go on walks, and just take it all in.

And it was so good for my heart and my soul, and I’m so, so grateful for that time, and your hospitality in welcoming me in such a hard time in my life. And so I’m so grateful for your friendship and for you being willing to share your story today. I know that it’s going to bless so many moms.

[00:42:52] I so appreciate your honesty and vulnerability because it is so true. We need to have these honest conversations of things that we’re thinking and the feelings we’re feeling because we’re humans, and we live in this broken world, and we’re going to have all of those things.

[00:43:06] And I think what happens is when we are grieving as a Christian, and we’re told, “Well, we know we have the hope of Heaven, we know this,” and it’s like, yes, that’s all true, and we believe it with all of our hearts. But we also feel deep sorrow, and we have these questions, and we have these thoughts running through our head. 

[00:43:33] And so just to know that we’re not alone in that, and other people think these things, and feel these emotions, it’s just so validating to say like, “I’m not alone. I’m not alone in this. There’s other people that can relate to me, but also God sees me in this.” 

And so to close up all of our conversation, now that you’re five years out, and you’re about to walk into the fifth Heavenly birthday for Timber, and this episode will air after that, but what would you say just where you’re at in your healing journey and what the Lord has done in and through your life?

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:44:01] I would say in ways it hurts just as bad as the beginning. I think about: This summer would’ve been the last summer we had together before she started kindergarten. And the truth is I don’t even know who Timber is, and that kills me. I know who my other daughters are. I know the sound of their voice, and their interests, and their strengths and their weaknesses, and I don’t know Timber. And that part of the grief I think I’ll hold onto, and it’ll feel just as raw whether Timber’s turning five or 95.

[00:44:35] I’ll also be more grateful for my three girls that the Lord has given me after her, and how I’m able to potentially be a different mom because of the grief that I’ve gone through with Timber, and value our time together.

[00:44:50] And Ashley and I, we talked about this before, but I used to work a lot, and now I’m pretty much a stay-at-home mom with my babies. There’s just so many things about my heart and my spirit that have changed, and I wonder if a lot of that is from what I’ve walked through with Timber. And so there’s so much that I’m just deeply grateful for. Yeah. 

[00:45:08] I would say, though, one thing I wanted to say about your last part is keep your eyes focused on Heaven. Of course our hope is in Heaven. Keep your faith rooted in the truth of Christ. 

And in those same moments, if you’re feeling like God maybe did kind of leave you, you feel that way, or maybe you have a little gender disappointment with the next baby, or maybe you feel any of these things I talked about that I know aren’t, but I felt them, understand too that God created you, and He knows you in the most intimate way that no person could ever compare to that.

[00:45:42] So I kept resting easy in that, knowing, “God, I’m not doubting You. I love You. I’m sold out for You. And also, this is how I feel, so meet me here. Bring me some peace over how I feel in my heart right now.” And I think that realness with Christ will allow for healing much more than if we do try to just suppress those thoughts.

Ashley Opliger: [00:46:05] Yes, and there’s so much grace. Jesus is love and grace. He’s truth, but He’s also grace. And so often I think we are so hard on ourselves as moms and as followers of Jesus. I know, even the thought that we have to preface, “I know that wasn’t a Christ-like thought,” we’re hard on ourselves because we want to represent Him well, and we want to be having Christ-like thoughts and say everything perfectly.

[00:46:33] We are broken people, and there is grace for us, and Jesus has that grace for us, and we also can extend that to ourselves in the way that we speak about ourselves or to ourselves. I know that sometimes I’ll be like, “Well, you shouldn’t feel this way,” or I’ll try to talk myself out of a feeling and almost shame myself for thinking that or feeling that.

[00:46:56] And something that someone told me was, “If someone else was telling you the same thing about their life, how would you speak to them?”

And most likely you would have so much love and grace and compassion, and you would say, “Well, you just went through this completely tragic, horrible loss, and of course you feel this way,” and there would just be grace. But we don’t do that to ourselves. You know what I’m saying?

[00:47:20] And Jesus does that for us. He sees what we’ve walked through. He knows what we’ve been through. He resonates with everything that we’ve been through because He walked it on this earth, and He has grace and compassion for us, and I think that’s helpful, too.

[00:47:37] It doesn’t give us a free pass to go out and do something crazy or sinful, right? But what I’m trying to get at, and I hope that I’m being clear in that, is that yes, in the grieving process there are going to be hard days. And we’re not going to always show up as our best selves, and we’re going to have these thoughts and things.

[00:47:56] And just as you said, yes, we’re sold out for Jesus, but we’re also struggling with why, the questions, “Why did this happen? What do I do? What does this look like for my life?” 

And I’m going to miss my baby for the rest of my life until I’m reunited with them, and that pain is not going to go away until we’re made whole in Heaven.

[00:48:15] I do believe that Jesus can bring healing back to our lives, but absolute 100% healing and wholeness, that cannot happen until we’re in the presence of Jesus in Heaven. I just don’t believe it, because we weren’t made for this earth, we were made for there, and so we’re always going to ache for our real home.

[00:48:34] That’s why in my book I talk about the feeling of homesickness. It’s like we weren’t made for this place. That’s why we feel so unsettled here. And so thank you for that reminder and just for your realness in where you are and what the Lord has done. 

And I have seen it in your life, being your friend, and just how God has really brought you to this place of simplifying your life and just enjoying home and your family and your chickens and your mountains, and just being really present.

[00:49:02] Because you’re right, life is so precious, and we should have an urgency to enjoy and be present with the people that we love, because we don’t know how many days we have. 

And I love that about your lifestyle. I see it behind the scenes, but also on your Instagram. It just brings me so much peace seeing how the Lord has just really led your heart to live differently in light of Timber’s life, and I think it’s really beautiful.

[00:49:28] So I would love, Aubrey, for you to close us in prayer, just keeping in mind that there are many moms that are listening that are in the fresh grief that you remember so clearly, but many that are also months, years out like we are, and so just thinking about what you would say to that mom and what you would want her to remember about God and His promises as you pray over us.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:49:57] 

Lord, I just thank You for this opportunity to be able to give some sort of honor to Timber’s life before her fifth birthday. I thank You for Ashley and the heart that she has for mothers who have experienced deep grief. I thank You for her taking her circumstance and turning it into something so beautiful that has impacted so many people.

[00:50:22] I remember just truly what a solid foundation I felt in her when I was walking through the loss of Timber in those early days, and then continued to feel for months and years. 

God, I pray that today the words that were spoken can be received to moms out there just delicately, kindly, empathetically, that they feel the truth of who You are.

[00:50:51] God, I know that You are not the author of our pain, but You will not waste it. God, I just pray that You will bring healing every day in some form to every mom that is listening to this podcast, whether that is in pink clouds, or a smile from another child on earth, or a sweet text from an intentional friend.

[00:51:17] God, I just pray that You will continue to heal hearts in a way that only You can. I pray that every person listening will not forget the hope of Heaven, but they will also live their life on earth as if there is more for them to accomplish, that they will not get too caught up in their grief, but that they will be able to make steps forward to advance Your Kingdom, to continue to know You, to live in Your goodness that You have for us here.

[00:51:46] We praise You, God. We know that every good thing comes from You. In Your holy Name we pray. Amen.

Ashley Opliger: [00:51:53] Amen. Thank you so much, Aubrey, for being on our podcast. Such a blessing.

Aubrey Pavlacka: [00:51:58] Thank you for having me, truly.

Ashley Opliger: [00:52:01] Thank you for listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. We pray that you found hope and healing in today’s episode. 

Don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss new episodes when they release each month. You can also find this episode’s show notes and a full transcript on our website at bridgetscradles.com/podcast. 

Be sure to sign up for our email list on our website, so that we can keep you updated on upcoming podcast episodes, support groups, and other hope-filled resources.

You can also purchase my book, Cradled in Hope, wherever books are sold. It’s a biblical guide for grieving moms to find hope after miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss. Written from the depths of my own heartbreak, I share vulnerably about losing my daughter, Bridget, and how God met me in my grief. Through Scripture, theology, and soul-deep reflections, Cradled in Hope offers biblical wisdom, practical guidance, and the eternal hope of seeing your baby again in Heaven through faith in Jesus.

To accompany the book, I’ve also created the Cradled in Hope Guided Journal—a beautiful companion that includes space to write your responses to the discussion questions, full Scripture passages from each chapter, and additional reflection pages and guided charts to help you process your grief and draw you closer to Jesus. You can download the free digital version on my author website at AshleyOpliger.com/Journal, or order the printed version on Amazon if you prefer to write by hand.

Are you looking for ways to use your grief for good? Visit our website to learn how you can volunteer or donate to Bridget’s Cradles in memory of a baby in Heaven. 

Do you want a quick way to make an eternal impact? Share this episode with a friend or leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help more grieving moms find the same comfort you’ve received here.

Thank you so much for listening and sharing. Until next time, we will be praying for you. And remember, as Jesus cradles our babies in Heaven, He cradles us in hope. Though we grieve, we do not grieve without hope.