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In this hope-filled episode, Ashley welcomes author, speaker, and fellow Bethany House author Lisa Appelo to discuss her new devotional, God of Comfort. After losing her husband unexpectedly and later walking alongside her son and daughter-in-law through the stillbirth of their baby, Lisa shares how grief transformed her faith, priorities, and understanding of God’s presence in suffering.

Together, Ashley and Lisa explore the unique challenges of devastating loss, the lies grief often whispers to hurting hearts, and the biblical practice of bringing our deepest questions, fears, and emotions directly to God. Through personal stories, Scripture, and honest reflection, they discuss surrender, God’s sovereignty, the hope of Heaven, and the comfort available to every grieving heart through Christ.

This conversation offers encouragement that God is not intimidated by your questions, your tears, or your pain. He invites you to bring it all to Him and discover that the pathway through grief is not a formula or a set of stages—but the God of all comfort Himself.

In this episode, we discussed:

• Lisa’s story of unexpectedly losing her husband, Dan, overnight, and becoming a widow with seven children
• Walking through the recent stillbirth of her grandson and supporting her grieving son and daughter-in-law
• How grandparents experience a unique “double grief” when a grandchild dies
• Practical ways to support grieving families without inserting your own story or taking control
• The lies grief often whispers, including fears that joy will never return
• Regret, guilt, and the “what if” questions that frequently accompany loss
• Learning to surrender control and trust God’s sovereignty when life does not make sense
• Letting go of the life you expected and embracing the life God has given you
• The sanctifying work God accomplishes through suffering and grief
• Why grief is not a tidy process and cannot be reduced to a series of stages
• Wrestling with the question “Why?” and learning to trust God’s character even without answers
• How suffering deepens our longing for Heaven and reshapes our earthly priorities
• The gifts that can emerge from grief, including compassion, intimacy with God, and eternal perspective
• Lisa’s devotional God of Comfort and how it helps grieving people encounter God’s character through Scripture, prayer, journaling, and reflection
• Finding hope in the truth that God comforts us so we can comfort others with the same comfort we have received from Him

This conversation is a beautiful reminder that grief may change us, but it does not have the final word. As Lisa shares, the way through grief is not found in a method, a timeline, or a set of steps—it is found in a Person. If you are carrying sorrow, wrestling with unanswered questions, or wondering if joy will ever return, this episode will encourage you to bring your broken heart to the God of Comfort, who sees you, loves you, and promises to walk with you every step of the journey.

Full transcript below.

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MEET OUR GUEST

Lisa Appelo is a speaker, writer, and Bible teacher who is passionate about helping grieving women. She suddenly became a widow and single mom of seven, navigating not only her grief but shepherding her children through theirs. Lisa has experienced miscarriage and the loss of her grandson to stillbirth. She helps women navigate their losses through her speaking ministry as well as in-person and online grief groups. She lives in Florida. Find her at LisaAppelo.com.

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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Episode 71 |God of Comfort: Finding Hope, Healing, and God’s Presence in Grief | Lisa Appelo

Ashley Opliger: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. I’m your host, Ashley Opliger. I’m a wife, mom, and follower of Christ who founded Bridget’s Cradles, a ministry in memory of my daughter, Bridget, who was stillborn at 24 weeks. Our nonprofit donates knit and crocheted cradles to hospitals in all fifty states to hold babies born into Heaven.

I’m also the author of the book Cradled in Hope, a biblical guide for moms grieving miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss. This podcast shares the same name—and the same heart—as the book: to help you find the comfort, compassion, and healing of Jesus in the midst of deep sorrow.

Rooted in the hope of the Gospel, this podcast is a sacred space for your broken heart to land. Here, we are going to trust God’s promise to heal our hearts, restore our joy, and use our grief for good. With faith in Jesus and eyes fixed on Heaven, we do not have to grieve without hope. We believe that Jesus cradles us in hope while He cradles our babies in Heaven. 

Welcome to the Cradled in Hope Podcast.

Ashley Opliger: [00:01:03] Welcome back to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. Today, I’m honored to introduce you to Lisa Appelo. Lisa is a speaker, writer, Bible teacher, and fellow Bethany House author who is passionate about helping grieving women find hope in Christ. She became a widow and single mother of seven after the sudden loss of her husband, Dan, and has since devoted much of her ministry to walking alongside others through seasons of suffering and loss.

[00:01:28] In addition to her experience as a widow, Lisa is also a grieving mom who has experienced miscarriage, and more recently, a grieving grandma after the stillbirth of her grandson. These multiple layers of loss have given her a unique perspective on grief and the faithfulness of God through life’s deepest sorrows.

[00:01:46] Through her writing, speaking ministry, grief groups, and online community, Lisa helps women navigate loss with honesty, biblical truth, and hope. Her newest devotional, God of Comfort, which I had the honor to endorse, is a beautiful invitation to bring our questions, fears, and broken hearts to the Lord and discover His presence in the midst of suffering.

[00:02:08] In today’s conversation, we talk about grief, surrender, regret, lament, supporting grieving families, the hope of Heaven, and how God meets us in our pain. I believe this conversation will encourage your heart and remind you that the God of all comfort is near. Let’s welcome Lisa to the podcast.

Ashley Opliger: [00:02:26] Welcome, Lisa, to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. I’m so honored to have you.

Lisa Appelo: [00:02:29] Hey, Ashley. Thank you for having me.

Ashley Opliger: [00:02:32] Well, I have known you for a while, and we both share a lot of connections in the literary world, in the author space, and you just released a book called God of Comfort through Bethany House, which is where Cradled in Hope was published last year.

[00:02:49] And so I have known you in this space, but also as a friend and as a fellow grieving heart that understands the pain of loss, but also the hope of Heaven and pointing grieving hearts to Jesus. I had the honor to endorse your new book, God of Comfort, which we’re going to talk about today. Would you introduce yourself to all of our listeners?

Lisa Appelo: [00:03:09] Absolutely. I am Lisa Appelo, and I am a mom of seven. I married my high school sweetheart. And we all start out with a life that we think will go right, and mine was not perfect. I would not say my life was perfect in any respect, but it was the life that I wanted. 

[00:03:28] I was married to my husband, he was in a job that he loved; my kids were doing pretty well. We’d made it through a lot of struggles, and my kids at this time were 4 to 19, so it was a busy household. And on a very normal Thursday night, I went to bed. We had pizza as a family, sent my kids up to bed, put the littles to bed, and then I headed to bed early; I had a big day the next day, and said good night to my husband like I had a thousand other nights.

[00:03:54] And he was going to stay up and do some work for his mom. Early the next morning, in the dark early hours, I was not even awake enough to perceive what was going on, but I woke to his funny breathing on the pillow next to mine, and thought he was just having a nightmare, thought he would roll over and we’d wake up to his alarm.

[00:04:12] But within a few minutes he did not roll over, and that breathing continued, and I turned on the overhead light, could see that something was immediately wrong. And we did all the things, Ashley. We did CPR. We called the paramedics, called 911. He was taken very quickly to the hospital. 

[00:04:28] I know my entrance to grief and loss might be different than some of your mommas. I did experience a first trimester, actually it was almost second trimester miscarriage. That would’ve been my eighth. But this was my entrance into tragic grief. And I was so grief-naive. When I got to the hospital, a very kind ER doctor took me into that room that you never want to go in and said that they had worked on Dan for over two hours, and they’d never been able to revive him.

[00:04:59] And so that was it. My life changed, and my children’s lives changed. And then fast-forward just very recently, just honestly a few months ago as I was beginning to share about this new book that I’d been working on for two years called God of Comfort, I got a call from my oldest son, and he said, “Can you come?”

[00:05:20] And this is their story to tell, but I can share this much, that my daughter-in-law was experiencing a stillbirth. And so over the next few days, I did go. I did travel there, took care of their other children, their other littles, and just helped in the house and helped them. But our family has been walking through that, and so this is a very fresh message for me as well.

Ashley Opliger: [00:05:43] Yeah. Well, Lisa, I’m so sorry for the loss of your husband and your precious little baby that went to Heaven, your eighth child. And also for your grandbaby. 

I know from talking to my mom and several other grandmothers that have come too, we have a grandmothers event in September where we invite grieving moms to come with their moms or mother-in-laws, and we have heard that grandmas grieve twice. They are grieving the loss of their grandchild, but they’re also grieving for their children, watching them walk through grief and pain. 

[00:06:19] And I’m sure that was so hard to step into that place with them. And it was beautiful that you went in and met physical needs, helping with their littles and helping with whatever you could around the house. But what was that like for you, walking that double grief?

Lisa Appelo: [00:06:34] Yeah. I saw all over again that we really do grieve differently. They’re very private about their grief. And so one of the things that was very important for me, you would think that having walked through this loss and also ministering in the grief space, I mean, I talk to people, I meet with people, I have a grief ministry, that I would just know all the things to do.

[00:06:56] And so I just want to put your listeners at ease. If they have a friend or if they are meeting a new mom who is fresh in grief, and they feel awkward, it’s okay. 

It was very important for me to do two things, and one is not to insert my story into their story. I had grief, and I know a lot about grief. I’ve read a lot. I’ve written a lot. But I wanted them to be able to share, and I just wanted to create that space for when the time was right that they would want to say something. So that was really important for me, to learn not to insert my story or my grief into theirs.

[00:07:34] And the second thing was just to honor the way that they wanted to grieve. This was their primary loss, and our whole family experienced it. But while I tried to help them take care of practical details about the service, somebody actually did tell us, “Please do that for them. Just take care of the details for the service. Just take those decisions. Make it as easy as possible.” And I knew that, and so just easing some of that for them, and yet also making sure that I stepped back, that I didn’t control in that situation. 

[00:08:08] But I just put it out on a platter and said, “These are the options. These are some things you might want to consider or do,” but let them honor their little one the way that comforted them and the way that they wanted to honor him.

Ashley Opliger: [00:08:23] That’s really great advice, not just for grieving grandmas, but for anyone that’s trying to support someone who’s lost a baby. Because I know so often when someone else is in pain, and they’re going through grief, we think of our own stories. We think of how we’re grieving, and it’s good for us to draw upon that because that is what leads us to compassion and empathy, that we understand the suffering that they’re walking through, and we can have action and love and comfort that comes from us from that understanding.

[00:08:55] Yet, at the same time, knowing that, yes, everyone’s different. Everyone has different needs. Everyone’s at a different place in their grieving journey. Someone might not be ready for something. Maybe they’ll be ready for it later. Maybe that’s not how they’re going to grieve. Being available and offering and showing up and being present in their grief without overpowering or controlling, I liked the way that you said that.

[00:09:18] I think holding space is a term that I’ve been using a lot, just thanking people for holding space and not feeling like they need to try to fix it or do this or say the perfect thing, but just people who are willing to be there in it with you.

Lisa Appelo: [00:09:34] Yes. That’s the way we walk with one another, right, with compassion.

Ashley Opliger: [00:09:38] Absolutely. So you became a widow overnight, and your seven children went from having a normal life to no longer having a father on earth. And this was just absolutely traumatic, devastating, sudden, something that you couldn’t have seen coming. You felt blindsided. 

[00:09:56] And so looking back now, because you just had Dan’s Heaven Day earlier this month, we’re recording in June, and so when you look back on that season, what were some of the biggest lies that grief whispered to you? And what truths from Scripture carried you through that?

Lisa Appelo: [00:10:14] This could be the rest of our conversation right here, Ashley. So many. I think one of the first that bubbled to the top was that I would never smile again, that I would never really feel joy again, that I would just try to make the best of it for my children, that all the good was behind me. And that is a lie. 

[00:10:33] And of course, that early grief is so raw, it is so all-consuming, it’s hard to fathom that we will smile again or that we will have that joy, that we will have a moment where we laugh and enjoy and love, actually, our lives while also missing the way we wanted and the person we wanted. So I think that was an early lie. 

[00:10:58] I think there were also a lot of lies for my kids. I had a lot of fear. I worried how my children would react in grief. I worried about our finances because we were a one-income family and that income was now gone. I worried about the health for my children. I know probably your mommas have worried about that, too. Health rises to the top, and they may have some lies about their body and about what they did.

[00:11:26] And I think that’s another thing, is that I had regrets. I’m not sure it was a lie, but I really thought if I had known CPR better, if I had taken better care of my husband, if I had been more aware and not so focused on my children, that this was something that was treatable and we could have caught it.

[00:11:45] And I really had to work through that regret, because I think all of us have those regrets because we think that we could change the outcome. And we wish that we could change the outcome. And so the truth of it, you asked for this truth of Scripture, the truth was that God knew. Psalm 139:16 says that every one of our days was written in God’s book before one of them came to be.

[00:12:06] And so He knew the day that Dan would be born, and He knew the day that he would be called to Heaven, because he would go to Heaven. And God was sovereign over all of that, and if He wanted to give us signs and symptoms, He could have. And so it’s not so much that I had answers as I had to surrender. I had just to surrender to the truth that God was sovereign and that He knew that date of death.

[00:12:29] I think the fear I had to take captive to the truth of Scripture, I think the lies about not smiling again or not having joy again, I think I just had to get far enough along in my grief. And it was quicker than I thought, honestly. And I thought, “Only God could do that. Only God could bring joy right in the midst of a hurting family.”

Ashley Opliger: [00:12:48] Oh, there’s so many things that you said that I want to comment on. Yes, only God is able to do that. And I resonated with what you said about feeling perpetually stuck in the survival mode, is what I call it, in that feeling like you’re just trying to get by. You’re not thriving, you’re just surviving. You’re just trying to get through the days, the hours, the minutes. 

[00:13:09] And you found that you know what? You can live again. You can have joy again. You can feel purpose, that you can see beauty and joy, all of these things, even when we’re still grieving. We’re always going to miss our children, in your case, your husband, in my case, my dad as well.

[00:13:26] And I think you live with that ache. We learn how to hold both, and so I resonated with that. But I also really resonated with what you said about the surrender because ultimately we do have a false sense of control that we think we could have changed the outcome. In your case, with your husband, feeling like there was something you could have done to save him that night.

[00:13:52] With all of our moms listening, I’ve heard so many stories of grieving moms that feel like there’s something in their pregnancy they should have noticed or they should have done differently or should have changed, and all of those what-ifs just start mounting up as if there was something we should have known or could have done that would have made the outcome different.

[00:14:12] And I talk about this a lot in my book about how we are good moms. We love our babies. If there was something we could have done, we would have done it, and of course, Lisa, if there was something you could have done that night, you would have. That’s one of the struggles I had to walk through in my counseling journey after the loss of my dad, was I was one of the last people to see him the night that this happened.

[00:14:32] And for those of you who don’t know, my dad was killed by a drunk driver, and he was on his motorcycle and someone who was driving three to four times the legal limit hit him. And I saw him on the driveway that night, and so I had all of these feelings like, “Well, what if I somehow could have known this was going to happen and I could have stopped him from going,” which is really irrational to think about it.

[00:14:56] Because this is what my pastor had to tell me is, “Ashley, you’re not God. You can’t change the past, and you can’t see the future. How could you have possibly known this?” 

And then like you said, his days were numbered. There weren’t any signs or things that you saw beforehand to let you know that this was going to happen. And I think with that surrender, it gives us that ability to say we’re not in control. And that’s a really uncomfortable place because we want to be in control. We want to be able to fix things, solve things, prevent things, save the people that we love.

[00:15:31] And as a mom grieving a child, that is one of our utmost instinctual things. We want to protect our children. And so how did you surrender that control and just those feelings of regret and the what-ifs?

Lisa Appelo: [00:15:45] What I realized pretty quickly in grief is that I had some pretty precious idols.

[00:15:52] And I didn’t know they were there. I didn’t mean for them to be there. But one of them was the idol of control. One of them was the idol of self-sufficiency, like, “I can handle it.” I had seven children. I was so used to keeping all the plates spinning, and so being in that place where I needed other people. I could not heal my heart, being in that place of needing God to do for me what I could not.

[00:16:13] But yes, that place of realizing that I am not in control, that our children, we have been given our children as stewards. We have been given our health to steward it. We’ve been given a marriage as a gift to steward. All of these things are gifts. They are not ours to control or manage. 

[00:16:38] And we can do one of two things, I think, in grief when we realize that we’re not in control, because I think most people do realize that. We can either kind of hands up and just be like, “Well, since I don’t have any control, I’m not going to control anything,” and not trust that God is going to control that. Or we can micromanage. We can even dig down even further. “I will not let this happen again on my watch.” And so all of that, I think being aware of it is huge.

[00:17:00] And like any little idol that we nurture, it was good for that to come to the top. I would not have chosen for it to surface that way, but as long as my heart was broken open, I was like, “Lord, You might as well clean it out.” And so to realize that I had that control in there and that I needed to release it.

[00:17:18] And I would, in my mind, imagine me holding both of my hands out, and I would imagine me letting go with one hand of the life that I wanted and the way I thought life would be, and then with the other hand embracing the life that was. And I had to do both of those things at once. I think when we’re grieving, we have to do both of those.

[00:17:40] And at first we’re just so hyper-focused on the life that we wanted, and it just feels almost impossible to embrace the life that is. But if we will do that over and over, that is surrender, to hold those hands open to the Lord, and we don’t have to understand it to trust that God has a hope and a future for us.

[00:18:00] And so to hold those hands out and say, “This is not what I wanted, but I trust You,” and to let go of the life that I wanted and embrace it. And as we walk through grief, it will become easier and easier to embrace the life that is, because our life will continue to grow, and we will continue to see God’s good right here.

Ashley Opliger: [00:18:22] Absolutely. And you said it. In the middle of that surrender and holding out your hands, there is a cleaning process that happens. Like you said, dig it out, clean it out. That’s something I like to talk about a lot is the sanctification that happens through suffering. There are things that we realize, whether they’re idols or various areas that God can prune to produce more fruit.

[00:18:44] I do believe that grief exposes a lot of that kind of yuck that’s in us. And in some ways, the grief has the ability to make us sometimes act the worst of ourselves, because it brings a lot of that dirt and muck that’s below the surface up, but it also gives us the opportunity for Jesus to come in and clean it out and purify us and become the best versions of ourself and become more like Christ, which is what we are wanting to do as followers of Him.

[00:19:13] And so I do think there’s that process of just letting God work the soil of our souls as we’re working through the pain and the questions and the doubts and the fears and the control. All of that comes up as you’re grieving. 

And so you said it earlier when you were talking about going to a place where you could smile again and laugh again, and it reminded me of your first book, Life Can Be Good Again.

[00:19:38] And so that was the book that came out that I first got to know you as an author. But now you just released a devotional called God of Comfort, and it’s specific to grieving hearts. And that is what I want to talk about today, because I know this book is going to comfort so many grieving hearts. And I’ve had the opportunity to read and to endorse it, and I would love for you to share your heart behind the message, who it’s for, and just a little bit more about the book.

Lisa Appelo: [00:20:08] Yes. Kübler tells us that grief comes in five tidy stages, and all we have to do is check it off, right, these five stages. But anybody who has gone through grief understands that grief is not tidy. It doesn’t come in linear stages, that it’s a messy mix of all kinds of emotions, sometimes conflicting, all at once, along with questions, hard questions we have.

[00:20:33] And so what do we do with this? I think so often in grief, I said that it’s easy to hyper-focus on our circumstance, and part of that is necessary. There is so much going on in our head, in our heart, and physically with us spiritually, that we have to process all that, right? And so that takes a lot of work.

[00:20:52] But we can hyper-focus on our circumstance, or we can look back at the life we wanted, or we can look around at everybody else. I remember looking around and thinking everybody else was living their best life, and here I was eking out this life that I didn’t want. 

[00:21:07] The way through grief is not a set of stages. It’s not a method. It is a person, and it’s the Person, it’s the God of comfort. And so what God calls us to do is really to come to Him with all of these messy emotions and with all of these questions that are too big and too hard for us to carry. He invites us to go to Him and to unburden our heart, just lay it down, just tell Him, whether we do that audibly or through tears or through journaling or through prayer, to just unburden our heart.

[00:21:38] And not once, but daily, maybe multiple times a day as you’re walking through grief. And then after we unburden our heart to Him, to say, “But I trust You.” And we see this call to lament. We see this in the Psalms. I know you’ve talked about this. I know you understand this process where, for instance like Hannah, when she could not have a baby, and she went and she wept there.

[00:22:02] And she was so viscerally weeping that you remember the priest thought that she had too much to drink. And she said, “No, I am in bitterness of soul,” because she just longed for a baby. She was going to meet with God and to just pour her heart out to Him. 

[00:22:18] But she prayed and got up before God ever answered her prayer in an astounding way. She went back, she ate, and she could participate in life. And so I think that’s what we do, is that we lay our emotions down. We lay our hard questions down, and we say, “But I trust You, Lord.”

Ashley Opliger: [00:22:35] Amen. Yes, it’s that surrender of everything that’s in our heart, bringing everything to Him, and even when it’s messy. And I know for me, when I was walking through the early days of grief, there were things I needed to tell God that I was believing about Him that I knew weren’t true, but I was feeling.

[00:22:54] And I think there’s so much breakthrough in being willing to say, “God, why did You allow this? I feel like You’re so cruel to allow this to happen.” Like you said, “This is so opposite of what I wanted in my life, and everyone else feels like they have an easy life, and why is it that I’m going through pain after pain and loss after loss?”

[00:23:16] And it’s easy sometimes to get into that victim mentality of, “Okay, God, You must have forsaken me. You must not be good, or maybe You’re good, but You’re not good to me.” And we know that Scripturally that’s not true, but we can feel that. And that’s definitely a topic that I’ve addressed a lot in my book because that was a feeling that I felt and I had to walk through and get that truth from Scripture.

[00:23:42] And so I’m sure you’ve felt feelings of feeling abandoned by God, and “How could You, God?” And, “Why has this happened?” And so what would you say to a mom who’s asking, “Where was God? Why did He let my baby die?” It’s hard to answer that question when we know God numbers our days and our baby’s days, but it’s hard to reconcile that truth with, “How could You, if this is not good, but You are good?”

Lisa Appelo: [00:24:09] Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up because those emotions, you’re exactly right, bringing those hard questions and hard emotions to the Lord. I think I was surprised how many people in grief think that we’re not allowed to do that, that we’re not free to do that. But God made us with emotions. He made us to think, and to do, and to feel, and so He designed us with emotions. Emotions are His very good idea.

[00:24:35] But the problem is that we weren’t made for death. We weren’t made for this kind of devastation. We weren’t made for drunk drivers, right? That was not part of what we were made for, and so it’s too much for us. But we are free to bring that to God. And I always say our emotions are not just safe with God, they are safest with God.

[00:24:55] And while nobody around us may understand what’s going on, while we may not even understand all that’s in us because it hasn’t all surfaced yet, God does understand that. And so we are free to go to Him and to lay those down and to tell Him and question. 

[00:25:10] Here’s the thing, right? I always think of it with my children. We can ask why. “Why, Lord?” The last thing my husband was doing, he was doing some stuff for his elderly mom. He was oldest of four. He took such good care of her. He was such a good dad, such a faithful husband. Why even my little grandson? Why, Lord? We could ask that question. We probably will not get an answer. 

[00:25:33] But it’s asked all through Psalms. David asked it, the prophets asked it, and Jesus asked it, right? Before He went to the cross, He goes to the Lord, and He’s like, “If there’s any other way, if You could do this any other way, take this from Me.” And so He laments to the Father. 

When I was wrestling through this, I thought about my own kids, and I thought, when my kids ask me why, because they all do that, right? If I were to tell them, would they understand it? 

I’m operating on an adult level. They’re operating on a four-year-old, three-year-old level, even a teen level. God’s ways, we know, are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. He is doing things and allowing things that we will never understand in our finite human mind. They just don’t make sense to us. And so even if He told us, why would we understand?

[00:26:20] And secondly, would we agree? I’ve told my kids a lot of times why I want them to do something that they think is not fair. If I were to tell them, would they even agree? So I think at some point we come back to that surrender.

[00:26:33] We have to wrestle with why. We need to get that out, and it is fine and good, and it is part of grief to process through that. But at the end of the day, that gap between what we wanted and the life that we’re living now, that gap is surrender. 

[00:26:50] And so at the end of the day, we fill that with surrender. We say, “I don’t understand. And honestly, Lord, I don’t agree, but I trust You.” And we just trust that one day in Heaven, that we hopefully will understand more of these things. Again, that is why we have the hope of Heaven. And that hope of Heaven also helps us in that place of why, because we can grieve with hope.

Ashley Opliger: [00:27:12] Absolutely. I love that you brought us to the reminder that His ways are higher than ours, because we just don’t understand, and there are so many things that we don’t know or can’t see, parts of the story, parts of our baby’s story, of our loved one’s story that we don’t fully understand, because we don’t see the full picture of eternity from beginning to end the way that He does.

Ashley Opliger: [00:27:39] We hope you’re finding encouragement in this episode so far. We want to take a moment to share some resources our ministry offers to support grieving moms like you.

On our website, bridgetscradles.com, you’ll learn more about our nonprofit and find many hope-filled resources, including free e-books to help you plan a memorial or funeral service for your baby, meaningful ways to honor your baby in your heart and home, and gentle guidance for navigating difficult days like due dates, Heaven Days, and holidays.

We invite you to join our community of grieving moms through our Christ-centered support groups, offered both in-person at our headquarters near Wichita, Kansas, and virtually through Hope Online. These gatherings provide a place to find comfort, connection, and biblical hope alongside other moms who understand your pain.

You can view upcoming dates and sign up on our website. While you’re there, we’d also be honored for you to share your baby’s story with us.

For ongoing support, we welcome you to join our private Cradled in Hope Facebook group—a safe space for grieving moms to find friendship and walk their healing journey together.

To stay connected with us and receive faith-filled encouragement, follow us on Facebook and Instagram at @bridgetscradles, @cradledinhope, and my personal page @ashleyopliger. 

Now, let’s get back to the episode.

Ashley Opliger: [00:28:59] I’ve always loved the imagery of a tapestry. I’m sure you’ve heard of that analogy of just on the underside, there’s all these knots and twists, and everything seems chaotic, and it doesn’t make sense, and it’s ugly.

[00:29:13] But if you were to turn it around and look at the other side, there’s a beautiful picture, and I think that has always helped me understand or always given me a picture of what maybe God’s view is like. From the underside, from our viewpoint on earth, looking into the chaos of this world and grief and loss and suffering, we see just all of the loose ends and all the knots and everything. It just doesn’t make sense. 

[00:29:39] But God is working out this beautiful story for His glory and for our good. And I’m praying that when we get to Heaven, we get to see that other side, and we can see, “Oh, that’s why. That’s why all of this happened the way that it did, and You did bring beauty from these ashes, and You did use this for my good, for my sanctification, and for Your glory.”

[00:30:01] There’s just so much more that we just can’t understand, and we do have to rest in that He’s a good Father whose ways are higher than ours, and He has a purpose, and He will redeem what the enemy stole. And we do have a very real enemy. 

Like you said, death was not God’s original plan. This is not the way that it was supposed to be, but He made a rescue plan through Jesus for us to be rescued from death and from Hell and for us to be in eternity with Him, and there’s nothing better that we could ever ask or hope for.

[00:30:33] And so fixing our eyes on Heaven, I’m in agreement with you. I think at the end of the day, when we’re in that place of surrender, and we have all these questions, we have to look toward our future in Heaven. 

Because we might see joy return on this earth, we might have healing come back to our hearts, but ultimately, our hearts will be finally healed, and we’ll finally have true redemption when we are reunited with our babies, with our loved ones, and ultimately with our Creator in Heaven.

Lisa Appelo: [00:31:01] We get so attached to this earth, with this temporary. But if you’re a believer, you know theologically, you know this world is not our home. When life shakes you, when you go through suffering, when your infant is born into the arms of Jesus or your 45-year-old or your three-year-old, all of life is short. And so it’s a brutal reminder, but it’s such a needed reminder for us because we would just make ourselves so at home here, and we would begin to be so myopic and shortsighted that this is what counts, and this is where we need to put our treasure.

[00:31:42] Well, you know what? When you have a loved one in Heaven, all of a sudden, Heaven is not that far away. It’s not that distant. I hate that the death of somebody I love made me realize that. And yet that’s one of the gifts, is to know this world is not our home, and that we better be focused on eternity. 

[00:32:01] Yes, there is so much joy here. Yes, there is so much abundance here of purpose, but eternity’s a long time. And I think that’s one of the gifts that I would not have asked for, none of us would ask for, but I’m grateful for that perspective.

Ashley Opliger: [00:32:17] Absolutely. I think when you are face to face with death, when you lose a child or a loved one, your own mortality comes into view. And you realize, yes, this life is but a vapor. It’s a mist. 

[00:32:34] And I don’t know about you, but I feel like the loss of Bridget, and then the loss of my dad, has given me a greater urgency to live with intention, to live for the Gospel, to share the Gospel, to live for Christ and share the Gospel because you realize how short it is and how quickly everything can change.

[00:32:56] My days are numbered as well, and something could happen very quickly, and you just don’t have any guarantee of how many days you have. And so I think I really realized this life is short and temporary, and I want to make my days count and live with intention and purpose until Jesus comes back or I make it to Heaven, whichever one comes first.

[00:33:19] And so would you speak to that, just how death has transformed your priorities and your faith and your outlook on life since you’ve walked through this with Dan and also now your sweet grandson?

Lisa Appelo: [00:33:32] I think I would’ve said I had a strong faith before Dan died, but I would not want to go through what we went through.

[00:33:40] I would never ask for this, but I would not want to go back to the girl I was before. The intimacy that I found with the Lord when He became my complete hope, I remember thinking, “There’s no way.” Every morning I’d wake up, and this might resonate with you. I would wake up like Groundhog Day. “Oh, this is my life, and I’m going to go through those same hard emotions and these terrible tasks that I don’t want to do. Everything seems difficult.”

[00:34:04] I was navigating grief with children who are grieving, and so God just became my everything. I had prayed before, but I was in constant conversation with the Lord. Scriptures that I had memorized, that I taught my kids so that they would know them, God used in my own life. He would bring them back to me at the right time. 

[00:34:27] My heart shattered. God does reshape our heart. He will walk us through, and as He reshapes our heart, He does it just like you said earlier, in such a beautiful way to make it more like Christ. 

There’s a compassion that I have that I never had before. I mean, in my parenting, I can get short and I can get impatient, and I can still say, “Lord, why am I going through this?”

[00:34:50] But God has reshaped my heart for Him, my priorities. I’ll just give you one that is super practical: I had pined for a bigger house. We had seven kids. There were nine of us. We were all in it, and we homeschooled, so we were in our house 24/7. And I have five boys, big boys. And so I just pined for a bigger house.

[00:35:11] And we would look, and God never really opened a door for us to have one. Then Dan passed away, and all of a sudden it was like, “Lord, You went before us. You went before me so well. You did not let us buy a new house, but I am so grateful this is all I have to take care of.” And all of a sudden this house that I had always thought was too small, that I had complained in my heart about, was enough for me to take care of.

[00:35:36] The priority of things, of a bigger house or a bigger this or a better that or all those things, those worldly things, that just … The world became very, what does the song say? “The things of this world grow strangely dim.” [Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus by Helen Howarth Lemmel] And so that was another way that God just shifted my priorities and reshaped my heart.

Ashley Opliger: [00:35:57] Yeah. And I know, again, death just gives you that perspective of we can’t take anything with us when we go to Heaven. We can’t take money. We can’t take things. And so often when we cling to this earth, and we get focused on the things of this earth and building things here, we can get out of focus of, “Wait, but these things are not eternal, a bigger house, a nicer car, better clothes,” whatever it is.

[00:36:26] I’m not saying any of these things are wrong or bad, but I do think that we realize, “Hey, this doesn’t carry the same value.” The treasures in Heaven are, we earn those differently, in serving God, in serving others, loving people well. And for me, I think I really realized the value of memories and making memories with people and spending time and quality time with people, because that’s the best thing that you can have.

[00:37:00] And I know when I lost Bridget, I think that there was this feeling of, “I’m never going to get to make memories with Bridget, and I have all these hopes and dreams, and I’m not ever going to see what she looks like when she takes her first steps or smiles,” and all of these things. And I felt like I had missed out on all of those moments, and I’m grateful that I’ll get to see them in Heaven, and I’ll get to meet her and truly know her there.

[00:37:27] But in her death, I think, like I said before, it just made me more intentional about how I was living, how I was spending my time, the things that were important to me. And I’m not immune to this world to say that I don’t feel that pull to do bigger, better, more stuff. But I do think that having gone through grief and suffering does reorient you to what’s most important in life and to the things of Heaven, because those are the things that really matter.

[00:37:58] And if you really boil it down, it’s like our salvation is the most important thing about us, about anybody. Whether or not you’re saved, it doesn’t matter how much money you have, what you have, all the things that you accumulate, our relationship with Christ is the most important. 

[00:38:13] And I’m grateful for my daughter for teaching me some of those lessons. And it’s not like we wanted those lessons, but like you said, there are gifts in grief that we learn. 

And so coming back to God of Comfort, you’ve shared more about the book in the sense of how it came to be, but would you share what it looks like? It’s a devotional, there’s prayers, there’s prompts. So can you just walk us through what the book is like?

Lisa Appelo: [00:38:42] I am very excited because I think the design team really saw the vision for this book. It is a book that you can interact with. You can work through your grief. There are devotions, and each devotion points to an aspect of God’s character. So if you feel lonely in grief, God Who Is My Sustaining Grace, God my sustainer.

[00:39:03] We were talking about Heaven; sometimes we can feel like our home, we can feel disoriented because you may have walked back in and that nursery that you were beginning to put together or whatever, your home is just disorienting. It’s like somebody came in and moved all the furniture, I say, in the house. God, My Dwelling Place.

[00:39:21] God Who Hears Me. God Who Goes Before Me. God Who Is With Me, all these ways that God is with us in grief. So each devotion points to one aspect of God’s character, and then there is a guided prayer. After that’s stated, you can pray your own prayer based on the Scripture, or you could use that guided prayer.

[00:39:40] Sometimes in grief it’s really hard to find words or to put words around what you’re feeling or what you want to pray. And then there are journaling prompts, so there are very intentional journaling prompts that follow each devotion, and then there is journaling space. So in the book, you can write in the book. It is meant to be consumable. 

[00:39:58] There’s actually, at the beginning of the book, they call it a presentation page, like a to/from page. So this might be something you give to somebody else who’s a new mom or grandmom or a neighbor that you’ve met who’s walking through grief. And then there are some poems in there, and they’re original poems that I wrote because sometimes poems hit us differently.

[00:40:19] There’s one in there called … One day I had said to my daughter in the car, “It is what it is.” She challenged me, and she said, “Is it, Mom?” I couldn’t quit thinking about that. I just say these things. I flip it off and I say, “It is what it is. We’re resigned to this.” And I thought, “It is what God says it is.”

[00:40:38] And so sometimes there were some things that I wanted to write, some poems that I hope will meet the reader in a way that sometimes just the text of the narrative doesn’t meet us. And my publisher was super good. Our publisher, because we have the same one, was super good. I didn’t tell them that I was going to include those. I just sent it in with my manuscript, and they embraced it. So very excited about that.

Ashley Opliger: [00:41:04] Yes, they are the best, and I love that they really trust and know the author’s vision, and I’m inspired by what you’ve written. And I know that all of our moms listening will find great comfort in it because you are pointing them to the God of comfort, the only one who can heal their heart and give them comfort in the midst of their grief.

[00:41:23] And I love that the book is devotional style, because it makes it really easy to walk through. I know that when you’re in heavy, deep grief, sometimes it can feel hard to open up a book. 

Even my book, I sometimes wonder, it’s very deep, and there’s a lot of theology and all really good content that I want grieving moms to read, but I also acknowledge it was hard for me even to pick up my Bible when I was walking through the early stages of grief.

[00:41:51] And so I love that this devotional is something that they can just read a little bit at a time and walk through an attribute of God’s character and have those prompts, the prayers to guide them through it, and then they can pick up the next day or whenever they feel ready. So it just feels very easy for someone who’s in grief to get in there, get in God’s Word, and to find a relatable friend who understands the grief journey.

[00:42:16] So I just thank you so much for writing this beautiful book. Thank you for gifting one to me. It’s just a true blessing, and I just thank you so much for putting your testimony out into the world and continually showing up for people who are grieving and sharing your own story of how God has brought healing to you.

Lisa Appelo: [00:42:35] Well, I appreciate you taking the time to read it and to offer your words of endorsement. You are somebody I trust, and you have not only walked it, but you have walked it with the Lord. And when we went through this recent loss with my grandson and my daughter-in-law and son, you were the first person to come to mind because I knew that you had walked it. I knew you have resources. 

[00:42:58] And there is a level of comfort, isn’t there, of knowing somebody has a resource, somebody who’s walked before this, somebody who can point me in. And I downloaded all your free e-books. I downloaded all of them because I just needed it. I needed to know what to do in this particular situation.

[00:43:14] So thank you for your ministry. Thank you for not just walking through grief, it would be easy to walk through it and keep going, but turning around and taking the hand of the woman who’s behind you who’s newer in grief and saying, “This is the way.”

Ashley Opliger: [00:43:28] Thank you. Thank you for your kind words. And something that you said reminded me of a quote that I recently saw on Instagram Reel, and it said, “Ministry is when someone else is healed by the oil that came from your crushing.”

[00:43:41] And that just really resonated with me because that is what ministry is. We have walked this journey. We have been crushed. But Jesus brings about oil, brings about fruit, and that fruit and that oil helps other people through their journey when they need it the most. And then, Lord willing, the idea is that then they are healed by that same God of comfort.

[00:44:06] As 2 Corinthians 1:4 says, that God “comforts us in all our troubles so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God.” And so that’s the beauty of it, is that we are crushed, but then sharing the healing oil with other people, and then they are continuing to pass on the light of Christ with others.

[00:44:31] Thank you for being in that space in the ministry of using the oil from your own crushing to bring healing to other women. I’m just so grateful for you. 

I would love for you to close us in prayer, and then we will make sure to link in our show notes how everyone can go and get a copy of God of Comfort. They are available wherever books are sold.

Lisa Appelo: [00:44:53] Let’s pray. 

Heavenly Father, You know every person who is listening right now to this prayer. And so we bring them into this prayer and bring them before You, knowing that You are a good Father, that You see them, that You have not set them aside, that You have not overlooked or abandoned them, that You love them with an everlasting love. And that in these circumstances that they never imagined, Lord God, You are carrying them. 

Lord, none of us would ask for the crushing. We would steer far from it, but You do not waste our pain. Lord, I pray that You would continue to draw us to You and help us to trust You. Help us to put our hope in You. 

[00:45:38] Where our hope feels so fragile, just so thin, Lord God, help us know that our hope is not something we have to drum up, but our hope is You, and that You tell us in Your Word, Lord God, who You are for us, and the promises You have for us. 

Lord, this world is a place of sorrow, and we have tasted it. Lord God, use it. Do not waste it in our life. Chisel away the junk in our heart, the stuff that does not belong, that is not pretty, that is ugly, that keeps us far from You, that keeps us serving You. And, Lord, help us become more like Christ. 

Lord, we give You every single piece of our shattered heart, knowing that You can put us back, Lord God, that You can restore, and that You will heal. And while that healing may not come fully this side of Heaven, Lord, You do have good for us. You do have a future for us. You do have joy for us, and You do have abundance for us. 

And so whether we feel that right now or not, Lord God, we lean into the truth of Your promises for us. I pray that over every person listening right now, and pray, Lord God, that You would do the deep heart work that can be done only when our heart is broken open, that we might look more like You, that we might glorify You, that we might experience intimacy, Lord, that we would never would have known before, that we would know You as comfort when we need Your comfort.

[00:47:10] Lord, thank You for this time. Thank You for this conversation. It’s in Your Son’s Name we pray these things. Amen.

Ashley Opliger: [00:47:16] Amen. Thank you so much, Lisa. It was a joy to have you.

Lisa Appelo: [00:47:20] Thank you for having me, Ashley.

Ashley Opliger: [00:47:23] Thank you for listening to the Cradled in Hope Podcast. We pray that you found hope and healing in today’s episode. 

Don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss new episodes when they release each month. You can also find this episode’s show notes and a full transcript on our website at bridgetscradles.com/podcast. 

Be sure to sign up for our email list on our website, so that we can keep you updated on upcoming podcast episodes, support groups, and other hope-filled resources.

You can also purchase my book, Cradled in Hope, wherever books are sold. It’s a biblical guide for grieving moms to find hope after miscarriage, stillbirth, or infant loss. Written from the depths of my own heartbreak, I share vulnerably about losing my daughter, Bridget, and how God met me in my grief. Through Scripture, theology, and soul-deep reflections, Cradled in Hope offers biblical wisdom, practical guidance, and the eternal hope of seeing your baby again in Heaven through faith in Jesus.

To accompany the book, I’ve also created the Cradled in Hope Guided Journal—a beautiful companion that includes space to write your responses to the discussion questions, full Scripture passages from each chapter, and additional reflection pages and guided charts to help you process your grief and draw you closer to Jesus. You can download the free digital version on my author website at AshleyOpliger.com/Journal, or order the printed version on Amazon if you prefer to write by hand.

Are you looking for ways to use your grief for good? Visit our website to learn how you can volunteer or donate to Bridget’s Cradles in memory of a baby in Heaven. 

Do you want a quick way to make an eternal impact? Share this episode with a friend or leave a review on Apple Podcasts to help more grieving moms find the same comfort you’ve received here.